1893 S Morgan - Real or Fake

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Gdobie, May 13, 2025 at 9:46 AM.

  1. Barney McRae

    Barney McRae Well-Known Member

    Do you know the die pairs for a 1894P? I may be sending you another batch. I've already sent you a couple of submissions. Thanks Jack for any reply. Edit..........I'm sorry, I thought you were John from VSS. My bad. "very embarrassed"
     
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  3. SilverMike

    SilverMike Well-Known Member

    Doesn’t look right to me either. Especially with the story from the seller.
     
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  4. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    That story about ICG is a bunch of hogwash. The seller would probably have gotten stronger bids in any reputable TPG's Genuine holder. My hunch is that it's an added mint mark.
     
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  5. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    OMG, did you actually spend $3755.00 on this?

    sold.jpg
     
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  6. Barney McRae

    Barney McRae Well-Known Member

  7. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    The 1893-S “dollar” in the OP is not good. The position the “1” in the date is not in the right spot relative to the dentles. A second marker is a die break through the “T” in “Liberty” which runs extensively through the bust. You need a 10x glass to see it
     
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  8. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    These are the pick-up points for a genuine 1893-S:

    VAMs revs.jpg
     
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  9. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    I have posted this on my FB Counterfeit Education Group "Fun with Fakes" as another Bay example.
     
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  10. rte

    rte Well-Known Member

    Thanks Jack.
    I'll change my decision, well because I don't know diddly about Morgan's :p
    I vote the OP send this one back and have the seller get it authenticated.
    We can all patiently wait for the results :D
     
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  11. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    A seller can get any negative or neutral feedback removed if eBay sees that they've offered a refund.

    Never forget our old friends aboncom:

    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/abon-coins-busted-must-read.249371/

    Or THR, doing business on eBay as coinsantiques.<number> and buyselltrade.<number>:

    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/thr-associates.205515/

    I'd consider the possibility that this was an honest dealer making an honest mistake -- but not in light of that "I showed it to ICG" story.
     
  12. Gdobie

    Gdobie Member

    Hey everyone, thanks for all the great feedback. I did take it to another coin dealer/buyer store last night and at first they said the Silver content was right and the weight was right and seemed to think it was real but when I offered the rest of the story they attempted to analyze the metal content with a different machine and that machine couldn't read it. The gentlemen did recommend taking it to a coin show which I may do this weekend. I also asked the seller if they would extend the 30 day return policy or be willing to get it graded. We'll see what they say.
     
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  13. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    I don't know if you are familiar with @Jack D. Young above. Probably the foremost expert on counterfeit coins and his work is routinely published in all the coin rags.... Sadly, he helped me a year back with a spike chin half cent that was so doggonned good that it almost fooled him too..... At any rate, Jack is the last word on counterfeits. Hands down.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2025 at 2:56 PM
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  14. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    This. (Or if not the last word, certainly a last word.)

    Weird readings from an XRF machine? Maybe the owner doesn't know how to use it for good accuracy. Looks weird? I've seen lots of genuine coins that look weird.

    Jack points out precise features that are present on all genuine examples, but missing on this one? Well, Jack might have it wrong -- but I wouldn't bet against him with my money, or yours.
     
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  15. Gdobie

    Gdobie Member

    Here what I said to the seller and his response:

    Me:Thanks for getting right back to me. I took the coin to another dealer last night to get a second opinion. At first they said the Silver content was right and the weight was right so seemed to be saying it way good. When I shared more details and what the other test showed they tried a second machine to test metal content and couldn't get a reading. Again they were not willing to confirm authenticity. I think the only way I'd be 100% satisfied would be to get it authenticated by one of the professional grading companies but might not have time. Would you extend the 30 day return policy or be willing to get it graded?

    Seller:Hello- I wanted to tell you the XRF machine the first dealer used is for jewelry and not coins. The sigma is the best machine out there for coins. It's up to you if you want to get it graded but I sold it raw to move it out to buy the next coins. I didn't want to wait for PCGS they have been taking so long. Its a great coin, not high grade by any means but a good example of a 1893 s .. my system is set up for 30 day returns so its 100% up to you what you would like to do..
     
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  16. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    No need to be an "expert" just willing to understand correct die varieties which can easily be found on the internet, like VAMWorld, PCGS, etc. But, like getting something for nothing, hope springs eternal. Maybe you have an unknown variety struck from unknown dies without the correct die markers or mintmark placement of documented genuine 1893-S Morgans.

    I am curious about the seller's statement "XRF machine the first dealer used is for jewelry and not coins"? I paid to have many deceptive counterfeit early copper "coins" XRF analyzed along with genuine ones (as control samples) at a PA testing facility- XRF machines analyze metal content and don't care what the subject is. My local coin shop uses theirs to check coins, jewelry and plated items for value. One does have to know how to operate the equipment though.

    I notified the seller it is bad but no response, as well as eBay but that doesn't matter; had I still had my direct reporting with the Bay I would have had it removed...
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2025 at 4:16 PM
  17. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    @Gdobie I have an offer- send it to me and I will personally have it analyzed for correct metal AND expedite a look-see for authenticity with Skip at IGC. You expedite it to me, I will expedite it through the process at no cost to you and get it back in time to return it in your 30 day window.
     
  18. No_Ragrets

    No_Ragrets Self-proclaimed Semi-Amateur Numismatist Supporter

    Send it back while you can. Don't FAFO with it, or you're likely to FO the hard way. (That's losing lots of money)
     
  19. No_Ragrets

    No_Ragrets Self-proclaimed Semi-Amateur Numismatist Supporter

    That's a fantastic offer and very kind!
     
  20. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    @Gdobie …… Take Jack up on his offer!
     
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  21. Gdobie

    Gdobie Member

    Hey Jack, thanks for the feedback, I did spend $3755, I know, I'm probably a sucker but I've been searching for one for two years trying to complete my album. Another red flag I just thought of is that the auction only lasted 24hours. I'd hate to send it back if there's a chance it's real but $3755 is a lot to gamble with so many questionable issues.
     
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