The Confederacy

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Alegandron, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    In a prior thread, linked below, a wonderful discussion and posting of denarii of the Social War was given. I admired the postings and commented that I was on the prowl... Well, my patience paid off as I have captured a Denarius from the Marsic Confederacy.

    Off the top of my head, the Social War was a political earthquake that shook the foundations of Rome and its relationship with its Italian Allies. As Rome had been warring, conquering, and incorporating Italian Tribes and Cities, Rome began amassing a small Republican Empire. Rome typically (and part of their political genius) wrote separate and distinct treaties with each of its conquered territories - or Allies. Generally, the treaties encumbered their Allies to taxation, trade agreements, land rights, as well as providing troops to Rome as needed for war. When Rome fielded a Legion, there was an Allied Legion beside it. That Allied Legion was outfitted, armed, and trained the same as the Roman Legion. Over time, the conquered Allies gained rights and was "incorporated" into the Roman Republican Empire.

    For many years in the Early Republic actually embraced populations that moved into their City and Territory. These migrations helped augment their population growth, manned their Legions, and supported their economy. A major "HOWEVER" loomed within these Allied relationships: Rome's aristocracy gained access and control of Allies' LAND due to their being conquered. This created enormous tension because of abuse and downright theft of property. Progressively over time, Rome's aristocracy blatantly abused confiscation of Allied properties for their own personal benefit. Many Allied populations were ejected from their farms, their homes, and many became destitute. Many Allied populations, in fact, migrated to Rome itself. However, those migrants did not hold Roman Citizenship.

    In 133 BCE saw an unusual site of an Ex-Consul (Aristocrat) Fulvius Flaccus be elected to office as a Tribune of the People along side Tiberius Gracchus. They pushed HARD for reform of the Land and Citizen laws for the Allied population in Roman Italy. In fact Fulvius Flaccus proposed an revolutionary concept of offering Roman CITIZENSHIP to Allied peoples. This was a thoroughly new and radical concept for the ancient world. However, and finally the Aristocracy had had ENOUGH. They did not want to give up their privileges and their legalized theft of Allied land... Several Senators banded together (so called Optimates) and their mob lynched Tiberius Gracchus...physically tearing him apart! Ten years later his younger brother, Gaius Gracchus tried the same reforms only to be voted out of the Tribune office after 2 terms. The Optimates won. HOWEVER, the deep-seated tensions remained...Land abuse, taxation, injustice, non-Citizenship to the Allies who fielded Legions side-by-side with the Roman Legions...

    Fast forward to 91 BCE (consider the MANY years of abuse for the Italians!), and the Allied Italian Tribes and Cities in Italy had had enough. At least twelve tribes from the Marsi and Samni Groups banded together as a Confederacy to fight for the rights of land and citizenship. Understand Rome had to fight against Allies who were outfitted, trained, and with leadership exactly like the Romans! Rome won but technically LOST this war... not by the battles, but by the problem festering throughout the Imperatorial period.

    I finally found a Denarius from from "The Other Side", represented and minted by this Allied Confederacy. Please also see the prior thread that offered gorgeous examples of the Social War Confederacy denarii.

    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/roman-social-war-italian-bull-goring-a-roman-wolf.270756/

    upload_2016-2-15_17-19-3.png upload_2016-2-15_17-19-32.png
    Marsic Confederation / Italian Allies
    Social War 90-88 BCE
    AR Denarius
    19x17.9mm, 3.7g
    Anonymous Issue, Corfinium Mint
    Obv: Italia head, l, ITALIA behind
    Rev: Oath-taking scene with eight warriors, four on each side, pointing their swords towards a sacrificial pig, which is held by an attendant kneeling at the foot of a standard.
    Comment: The reverse is based on the gold Stater and Half-Stater from the Second Punic War
    Ref: Sear 227; SYD 621

    I understand the Social War Issues from the Allies are considered RARE.

    Please post your coins from the Social War, whether from ROME or the ALLIES!
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Love the reverse on it.
     
    swamp yankee and Alegandron like this.
  4. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Congrats! I'd love to have one of these... yours is a really nice example.

    I'm curious about your comment at the end noting that the reverse is based on staters from the Punic war. I recall reading (probably from some auction descriptions) that it was likely based on this T. Veturius denarius from 137 BC (not my coin):
    image.jpeg
     
    Curtisimo, TIF, dlhill132 and 6 others like this.
  5. WDF

    WDF Its all about history

    Great write up! I really like the reverse as well.
     
  6. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    That is a comment that I left out. Sear mentions that T. veturius denarius also influenced the issue.
     
    ancientcoinguru, Mikey Zee and zumbly like this.
  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I think the reverse is very cool, and the oath scene very solemn.
     
    WDF likes this.
  8. Aidan_()

    Aidan_() Numismatic Contributor

    Great write up and coin! ;)
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  9. brassnautilus

    brassnautilus Well-Known Member

    That's a hard to find coin, gratz
    I think the oath swearing scene depicted on the coin zumbly posted was from the gold stater with dioscuri. The pig sacrificing scene was probably original to the social war issue. There's also a pig killing scene with 5 guys, with mars on the obv. Equally hard to find:(
     
    zumbly and Alegandron like this.
  10. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Twas tough to find, and unbeknownst to me, out-bid a good friend (that is NOT a good feeling...)

    And thanks for the further clarification! Good stuff!
     
  11. Carthago

    Carthago Does this look infected to you?

    Neat coin and interesting time period. I've only started collecting these. Here's a couple:

    Bellium Sociale Syd 627 Kunker 2015.jpg
    Bellium Sociale Syd 622 Kunker 2015.jpg
     
  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I had been looking for them for some time, but yours and @Volodya 's past postings further inspired me to move from a prowl to a hunt for them! Thanks!
     
    Volodya and Carthago like this.
  13. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Wonderful coin and historical background Al !!

    Gorgeous coins as usual Carthago!!!

    Not so long ago, I lost out on a RR denarius of Veturius (with the oath taking soldiers etc.) and I'm still missing any type from the 'Allies'. But, I do have a few struck during the 'Social Wars years of 90-88 BC by the Romans such as these two---- A quinarius of M Cato with Liber and a seated victory (89 BC) and a denarius of Sabinus wht the head of Tatius and the rape of the Sabine women reverse (89 BC):
    M Cato quinarius.jpg 22000 (1).jpg
     
    Curtisimo, TIF, dlhill132 and 10 others like this.
  14. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Love your Quinarius, as I have one too! And I am after the Sabine babes!
     
  15. ancientcoinguru

    ancientcoinguru Well-Known Member

    Wonderful acquisition @Alegandron!! Something high on my wish list, but as noted, very hard to find.
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  16. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Wonderful new addition Al. Congrats on a very hard coin to find.
    Q TITIUS.jpg
    Q TITIUS ROMAN REPUBLIC; GENS TITIA
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: Head of Mutinus Titinus (Priapus) right, wearing winged diadem
    REVERSE: Pegasus springing right, Q TITI on base
    Struck at Rome 90 BC
    3.8g, 18mm
    Cr341/1, Syd 691; Titia 1
    L. TITURIUS L.F. SABINUS 2.jpg
    L. TITURIUS L.F. SABINUS ROMAN REPUBLIC; GENS TITURIA
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: Head of Taitus facing right, SABIN behind, palm before
    REVERSE: Tarpeia buried to her waist in shields, fending off two soldiers about to throw their shields on her; L. TITVRI in exergue
    Struck at Rome 89 BC
    3.2 g, 20 mm
    Cr344/2b; Sydenham 699; Tituria 4
     
  17. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thank you, that means a lot! It was a tough one to capture...
    I still do NOT have that Sabinus! I want it! :D
     
  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I do not have any Italian coins but do have a couple pigs from the earlier period. Rarer than killing them, the soldiers are swearing an oath on the pigs. Whether the pig was later sacrificed, I am not certain.
    ra0920bb0262.jpg ra2890bb2190.jpg
     
  19. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Ti Veturius.jpg
    TI VETURIUS ROMAN REPUBLIC; GENS VETURIA
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: Helmeted bust of Mars right
    REVERSE: Youth kneeling l., between two warriors who touch with their swords to a pig which he holds., ROMA above
    Struck at Rome 137 BC
    3.7g, 18mm
    Cr.234/1; RSC Veturia 1
     
  20. ancientcoinguru

    ancientcoinguru Well-Known Member

    Nice coin @Bing with great details...you can even see the pig's face:joyful:
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  21. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    That is a gorgeous coin! Nice find. That is one that Sear states influenced the oath scene on the reverse of mine. I can imagine that little pig just sqeeelin' at the oath ceremony!
     
    Mikey Zee, ancientcoinguru and Bing like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page