Oh My GOSH! Someone REALLY Goofed up!!!

Wow, Doug...you will have to grow a THIRD THUMB!

I LIKE your error-coin a LOT! That took a lot of work, neglect, or "what-the-heck" to put that one out! The cost of the possible slave-labor to re-pound out that boo-boo was much more than the monetary value of the coin!

Someone on the bashing floor needed to scream out "RE-MELT" that monstrosity.

GIMME!!!

 

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There is a special class of 'error' I am still seeking. It was recently identified by Curtis Clay and I agree with his take on the matter. My coin below may or may not be one (I suspect not) but either way, I want and obvious one.

The coin is struck once on the obverse but twice on the reverse. The 'good' ones show two distinctly different reverse dies. Mine hase one strike 180 degrees inverted from the other but the two dies were either the same or close to identical. I want one that shows the second strike from a different reverse type but no sign of doubling on the obverse. The theory is that the striking team consisted of two die placers sharing one obverse die. Reverse dies did not last as long as obverses and got hotter in use because they were smaller and being hit by the hammer. Alternating reverses would make more efficient use of the expensive to make portrait dies. If, however, a coin was struck but not removed from the lower die it could be struck again using the other reverse die producing a single/double combination. Why did mine get struck rotating the same die? Are both the .ANTS mintmarks from the same die or just from very similar ones? I want a coin that certainly shows two reverses and one obverse die used together.

 

If a similar error were made on a modern US coin, it would be priced at hundreds of dollars and be highly sought-after by a large number of modern error collectors. Yep, it may be true that few folks are interested in the same error on a 2,000 year old Magnentius that is dripping with history.

 

Some of them go for moon money (which can fuel some excitement if you own the coin). I have a few of these proof Franklin half dollars with DDR & sold one when AN & I were at a coin show. This doubled die routinely sells for $2,500 to $3,500.

 

Well yes, moon money would definitely fuel my excitement. I could use it to buy some real coins. Just out of curiosity, did you hunt those Franklin DDR's down yourself? And if so, how many coins did you search? Or did you just happen to stumble across them?

 

I was searching for the variety since just before it was listed in the red book. I bagged only one raw & the rest were already slabbed when I got them. I bought one from Stanton (Cherrypicker's fame) in a slab so that was probably after it appeared in the red book. I've sold a couple in the last 10 years. Here is a PF64, PF65, & PF66 grading set :
I will always keep my eyes open for this one.

 

If ya' find modern errors/varieties worth big money, (if you cherrypicked them) sell it for some quick cash and go buy a nice ancient.

 

Well that's a nice little lottery win! Congratulations. I would probably go insane trying to cherrypick US varieties - or maybe blind. I would stand as much chance of finding a valuable coin as I would winning a scratch ticket.

 

Wow, Alegandalf => that's an amazingly cool addition (very, very cool)

Ummm, firstly I want to post my sweet example of the "proper coin" ...

 

... oh, and secondly

=> I wanna add-in some also-rans ... the coolest coin "ever"

BOEOTIA, Federal Coinage (Overstrike), Æ18
Circa 220s BC
Diameter: 17.5 mm
Weight: 5.11 grams
Obverse: Head of Demeter or Kore (Persephone) three-quarter face right, wearing corn-wreath
Reverse: Poseidon, naked, standing left, resting right foot on rock and leaning on trident; to right, ΒΟΙΩΤ[ΩΝ] downward
Reference: BCD Boiotia 108 (this coin); HGC 4, 1182. VF, dark brown patina. Overstruck on Æ of Antigonos Gonatas of the type SNG Cop. 1214-1221
Other: 12h … the overstrikes are reversed on this coin, which is quite rare
Ex BCD Collection (Triton IX, 10 January 2006), lot 108.



oh, and this is the underlying original coin ...



... ummm, do you get it, yet?

 

Not a bad idea.

 

Very nice coin Steve. I'm jealous of you guys with nice examples of these. I have bid on a handful of this type in the past few months and lost every single one. One of these days I'll catch one.

 

LOL holy cow, neither coin remotely resemble each other. I figgered they would completely melt the metal down to strike a new coin! Demeter kinda has the Gorbachev birthmark going on there...

I digress... I feel that was what happened to Carthage coins when the Romans eventually obliterated them... I understood they overstruck SOME of the Carthage coins, but I felt the Romans wanted to completely erase Carthage, so they melted their coinage into oblivion before using the metals. I've not run across Roman overstrike Carthage coins...that would be cool.. Does anyone know or possess them?

 

Very nice example! Blows away my QC standard example in my OP.

 

I understand that these were the first radical departure for their, then, denarii coinage as Roma head Obv, and Dioscuri Rev... So the Moneyer was taking a bit of a chance issuing thses designs! Cool! Get one Red!

 

A few centuries ago in Holland unusual tulips were worth a lot of money, defying sense and logic. But, in the midst of the craze, how would you have known when to sell? Sometimes overpriced collectibles go up even more before the crash.

Now, clearly (to me, anyway) doubled die US coins are priced high in a way that defies sense and logic. Maybe it is because there are so few interesting US coin types that collectors find interest in the tiniest details. The only interest of doubled-die varieties is that they are worth a lot of money, which is why they are worth a lot of money. The logic is circular. When people begin to realize that prices will crash. When? Years from now? Soon? I don't know.

If they only knew of ancient coins, they would have a vast area to collect in which details can matter, but are rarely the reason for a great deal of additional value. So, with the declining interest of young people in US coins, I fully expect the value of doubled-die varieties to crash. It is hard to "time the market" but if I had one I'd sell it now and put the money into something interesting.

 

Perhaps the Carthaginian alloys and denominations didn't match with the Republic's coins, necessitating melting rather than overstriking.

Edited: here's a currently for-sale Roman Republic sextans which was overstruck, possibly on a coin of Carthage, with further explanation of the recycling situation:


"FORVM ROMAN REPUBLIC SARDINIA SEXTANS 2ND PUNIC WAR OVERSTRUCK ON CARTHAGINIAN
Roman Republic, Second Punic War Vanquished Enemy Overstrike, 211 - 204 B.C.

RR72285. Copper Sextans, cf. McCabe Anonymous group H1.Sx; Crawford 63, 64 and 65 (MA, AVR and C issues), F, probably overstruck on a Carthaginian bronze, 1.684g, 15.4mm, 180o, Sardinia mint, head of Mercury right in winged petasus, two pellets above; reverse prow of galley right, ROMA above

This coin is from Andrew McCabe's group H1, a previously unrecognized late Second Punic War issue, overstruck on the coins of Rome's vanquished enemies, from a mint or mints in Southern Italy, Sicily or Sardinia (this coin was struck on Sardinia). The most common undertype is Carthaginian Tanit / horse types, but coins of Capua, the Bretti, Syracuse and other coins of the vanquished were also overstruck. For reasons unknown, these coins were overstruck on types that weighed half the standard for the same denomination at Rome. In the past these coins were often assumed, based on their weight, to date to the late second century or first century B.C."

...

Note: Forvm has a Vcoins store in which they list the same coins which are for sale on their website. The price for any given coin is less if you buy it from the Forvm website... in case anyone was unaware. It's much easier to browse the Vcoins site, but cheaper to buy it directly from Forvm.

 

The one I posted here https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-...-overstrike-from-the-second-punic-war.269278/ is from McCabe group H1 as well. It's definitely overstruck on something but I have not been able to determine the exact undertype. These are generally overstruck on Carthaginian, Sicilian or Sardinian bronzes though. There's also a link to his fascinating paper in the thread as well.

 

Thank you! I had run across this... had read that that the Romans overstruck on vanquished bronze coinage. I wondered at the time that the Romans used the overstruck coins as "tokens" since they were half the weight, similar to the Roman Litrae that were traded with the Southern Italy Magna Graecia from 280-211 BCE...

Kinda a punishment: "Here...take this Sextans for HALF the copper/bronze weight for the grain we want from you. Good luck spending this low bronze weight coin ELSEWHERE. If you spend it in Rome, you will have to DOUBLE the amount of Sextans to buy from us, you vanquished swine. THAT will teach YOU for buddy-ing up with that nasty Hannibal Dude..."

 

Thank you very much! I have downloaded it and will read...scanned, and it looks like great stuff!