Featured Counterfeit Morgans: hands on with a high quality Chinese fake

After reading up on the fakes coming out of China, I decided to get my hands on one (it was that easy). Here’s a 1879-CC in “UNC” condition. See the images below. The luster was a bit “off” at the high points, particularly on the obverse, but the cartwheel was fully intact. At worst, it looked like a lightly cleaned genuine Morgan to the naked eye. With a bit of pocket wear, it could easily pass for an AU coin.

At this point, I’d recommend only buying raw coins from the most reputable of dealers on eBay (I can list them off on one hand), or dealers whom you’ve done repeated business with & developed a rapport.

Another option is to stick to slabbed coins on eBay, but apparently they are being counterfeited too….Be cautious of any PCGS/NGC slabbed coins that look off. Have genuine slabs to compare against. Take note of the font details, as well as the plastic raised corners of the PCGS holders in particular.

The coin has been passed onto the appropriate authorities - please don’t ask questions about its acquisition or the subsequent process of reporting it. I was shocked at the quality of the fake and wished to share it here for informative purposes only.



Reverse:
Obverse:

Reeds:

Weight & Diameter check out:

 

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Excellent work and advice.
I collect mainly UK coins.
I'm aware of the 1763 Northumberland shilling,1822 half crown,1864 die 4 florin and 1847 gothic crown where more fakes are out there than originals

 

I enjoy these threads but I think it may be helpful to point out the signs that this is a fake. Only a couple things jump out at me and the luster wasn't one of the, maybe it's because I don't have it in hand. To me the upper lip looks funny and so does the raised rim by the denticles but then again it doesn't look much different than alot of other Morgan's I've seen. The MM looks like it might have something going on but that's not unusual either (think of all the different VAMs). Other than that what am I missing?

 

The real problem is once there's enough education going on, counterfeiters will soon use rock tumblers to artificially wear the coin down to remove the doubt of 'weird' luster. And it's already happening as we speak. I guess anything awkward that stands out gets fixed very quickly by counterfeiters. In the last five years, the easiest diagnostics were magnetic, crude, wrong weight, bad edging etc. Now look at today. Guess what's going to happen in the next ten years. I hate to think that far ahead.

Again, please seek professional advice if you don't know what you getting. For every dollar you are planning to spend, please do not fund counterfeiters to allow them to make better counterfeits. Instead allow coin dealers to have a decent business to give you a better deal. I know everyone loves a bargain but the quickest way to learn is to become a seller to see the other perspective.

 

Frankly, given whats available, I am surprised the fakes are even detectable anymore.
Long ago, Hallmark brought out a new series of Christmas ornaments with a Star Trek theme. The original one was a small, light up Enterprise. My brother managed to get his hands on two, one of which I have.
But, even then, Chinese fakes came out. Now its buyer beware. Frankly, I almost never buy "collectibles" anymore, because its too high a price to pay for something cardboard or plastic that my kids will likely get their hands on. And, if it truly has any value, you can be sure there will be easily obtained Chinese knock-offs destroying your investments value.
I would be interested in a short summary of how this Morgan is fake also. Some fakes are easy. I was in the Philippines last year, and in preparation for shopping the outdoor markets, I bought a magnet. My wife wondered why. I walked up to the first booth displaying old "silver" pesos, and the coins practically jumped off the table onto the magnet, while the seller stared at the sky and pretended not to notice.
I am really not ready to give up on collecting yet, but I bet my kids will not want to chance it.

 

Not too long back, there was a thread about a raw 1889-CC in MS condition. I expressed my concern that it might be a counterfeit. I'm still hoping that I'm wrong, but the improvement of Chinese counterfeits is exactly why I expressed that concern. The OP of that thread said that he planned to submit it for grading & authentication, but we haven't heard the results yet.

What is even scarier is that if silver continues to remain at a low price, the Chinese counterfeiters might even use 90% silver to make them. Based on a spot price of $15.75, a counterfeit dollar would only require $12.18 in silver. They could still make huge profits on common-date coins.

Chris

 

The denticles are no good.

 

On what side, and location do you find the denticles especially telling? It does seem to me that the breast feathers aren't defined enough for a dollar in this condition, but would probably fool me....

 

How and where are they coming in?? any ideas on that?

 

I agree with Dancing...the denticles seem to be square...but I would never have caught it.

 

The frightening part is that in no way is this the zenith for these Chinese counterfeiters. They are going to continue to get better at it.

The TPG's need to step up, get some modern equipment, invest some capital, and use computer scanning diagnostic techniques instead of eyesight for authentication. Then the human eye can be used for grading purposes. It's not really an option anymore, this needs to be done and the sooner the better.

There also needs to be a superior method of website verification, to prevent the successful use of counterfeit slabs. The current system that TPG's use, simply is not good enough in today's world.

 

It really makes no sense for these counterfeiting vermin not to use silver.

BTW - I hope a campaign and a mind set develops better in our country to buy American made products and products from friendly allied countries. China is not our friend in any way, shape or form, and I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

 

Also - I guess China considers this "business" however I take it personal when a foreign country is dedicated to systematically trying to destroy our hobby which has been my lifelong pleasure. We need to do whatever it takes to defeat these counterfeiters, before they defeat us.

PCGS, NGC and any others, venture capitalists...you listening?

 

Does anyone know of ANY graded/slabs that have been found to be fake?

 

Assuming you mean fake coins in authentic slabs, yes. The "privately made" micro-O VAMs were routinely slabbed years ago before the TPGs noticed they all shared a set of die markers. Other than that, I don't know.

 

It's not just a foreign country allowing this. Heck, we have people right here on these forums who buy "loophole" copies that are made right here in the good old US of A.

Chris

 

I noticed that the eagle's breast on the reverse seems to be devoid of feathers. Is that a counterfeit diagnostic or are there genuine coins with weakness in that area?

 

Thanks for posting the link to that report on the fake coins coming out of China. It's depressing for us coin collectors, but the real problem with China extends way past this issue with fake coins.


Do not start a political rant~ Rules!

 

Dentils and eagle's breast look normal. Often when someone presents a coin and says it's fake, it becomes a Rorschach test. Personally I would purchase this coin as genuine even after seeing this thread.