Current Premiums. Silver Specifically

I see. In your initial post, you said "90% quarters and Franklin halves for melt plus $3.50". 1 oz. ASW would be like 2.25 halves. It's hard to hone in on an exact 1 oz. with junk silver.

 

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Actual Silver Weight is the best way to buy.

 

Some vintage silver at the quartzite gold and treasure show.
The little A-mark bar was $45.
The rest were around $55 an ounce.
Gold from $2150 an ounce from this guy.
Another vendor had $66 a gram #14 gold fines.
$67.50 a gram for #12 screened gold.
$68.75 for #10 screened gold.

 

These are all mine from my grandfather,I couldn't believe the premiums they go for, The little one goes on my Keychain.

 

You’ll be waiting a long time of you think the premiums are going to drop.

 

At this time, it's fair to point the finger of blame at the U.S. Mint and their oligopoly of special dealers. It's one thing to have a premium because of supply imbalances during Covid.

That was 3 years ago.

There's no reason for the ASE Silver Premium to persist this long with no material move in the price of silver and no volatility that would account for a premium necessary to counter that volatility risk. This is the U.S. Mint guilty of collaboration with those dealers, and no, I am NOT a guy who believes these pie-in-the-sky conspiracy BS YouTube crapfests like JP Morgan and silver, etc.

If a private company were involved instead of the U.S. Mint, the FTC and DoJ would have long been involved here !!

If the U.S. Mint were to seek out ALL dealers and then agree to sell ASEs to those dealers who promised to sell at the LOWEST PRICE -- just like they demand of market makers for stocks (where the bid-ask spread is measured in pennies) -- this crap wouldn't be happening.

For those of you who contact dealers or the U.S. Mint, ask them: "How come the FTC and DoJ and SEC are worried about spreads a few pennies or a nickel too high on stocks....but a spread of 20% on ASEs doesn't merit a peep ?"

Enough is enough. And I'm not an ASE buyer, so I have no dog in this hunt. But I am tired of lying hypocritical government double-talk.

 

But the price of silver did NOT go up....just the premium. The US Mint's dealer-sanctioned oligopoly created artificially high premium prices to deal in ASEs.

Lumber quadrupled in price -- silver rose much much less. Vehicles are a distinct product that aren't comparable across the spectrum.

As I posted above, the U.S. Mint has some explaining to do.

 

If you're talking about when silver rose to $45/oz., my recollection is that the premiums were maybe $5 or so (about 10% or less). Today, they are closer to 30% or more.

 

I think buying at today's prices for silver (or gold) should make us money over time...even with the moronic premiums...but you never know because demand and supply fundamentals CAN change as we've seen going back 40+ years. With no interest or dividends, silver is a SPECULATION and not an investment.

This is for your gambling money or the part of your savings you can afford to not make $$$ on or see lose 50% of its value and not impact your lifestyle, retirement, etc.

Remember, this is a HOBBY -- even for pure bullion.

 

Just remember that unlike ASEs....liquidity (what there is for a commodity) is much less for larger quantities like these bars and your floor is likely spot silver.

 

I thought I would try to purchase some silver bars instead of U.S. coinage ACCOUNT PREMIUMS but when I see bars sell and what they're asking for the Engelhard's Bars. I set some air and whoa way down. I am still going with gold just takes a little longer to save...unlike silver would spend a few hundred a week but not now.

 

Here is an example of a few.
1888O Hot Lips VG+ Morgan Silver Dollar *New Orleans Mint *NO HIDDEN RESERVE
Starting Bid: $85
1896O Very High Grade VF Morgan Silver Dollar *New Orleans Mint *NO HIDDEN RESERVE
Starting Bid: $52
ALL THE VG AND UNC, HIGH GRADE isn't always the case. The Eagle breast, the cheek bone and the lower portion curl in the peak of liberty cap and so on show allot of wear to me. Trying to trade ASE for morgans or peace Dollars.

 

I don’t look at PMs, and nor should anyone else, as an investment. They’re merely a way for your savings to not lose value over time. You’d need about $1,675 to have the same vale as $1,000 20 years ago. If you put that same $1,000 into silver 20 years ago it would be worth roughly $5,000 in todays dollars.

I don’t think it’s smart to have a large % of your savings in metals. I do think it is smart to have a small portion of your savings in metals just to keep pace with inflation, as long as your personal financial situation will allow it.

Obviously nobody knows what will happen in the next 20 years. All we can do today to help make our decisions is look at the past and current events and use our best judgement.

 

That is the correct outlook. I often say that if I have a twenty in my wallet in the morning that it will be gone by evening…. But if I take that twenty to my LCS and pick up a nice Franklin half, that will be with me a good while……. And besides, the excess cash I keep in the bank only materializes into clothes in my wife’s closet that go to Goodwill a year down the road!

 

If you're trying to maintain purchasing power, then stocks or even bonds (certainly TIPSs) are a better hedge.

I think the small % -- and I agree with you there -- is just disaster insurance which lets us "double-dip" by also collecting bullion and/or coins.

We get to pursue our hobby AND maybe hedge against a disaster (i.e., China moves on Taiwan).

But the past was full of anomalies....gold and silver prices were controlled for decades....exchange rates only floated (sank ?!!) since 1973....past relationships are not applicable to the future, as we've seen in the prices of silver and gold the last few years.

 

I think you’re way off base. The premiums are simply a function of real and/or perceived demand and the retails are simply taking advantage of the market.

Remember most consumer goods have not insignificant markups at every level before the retail buyer.

you’re looking for a conspiracy that doesn’t exist.

just don’t buy any of you think it’s unreasonable.

 

No, they are taking advantage of a MONOPOLY given to certain dealers.

Let EVERYBODY have access to freshly-struck ASEs and see what happens to the premiums. I bet within 2 weeks it falls to $3 a coin or less.

The markups were 10% (or less!) give-or-take for DECADES....now they are 30-40% ?

Sorry, that doesn't add up.

No conspiracy, an evaluation of the market using the government's own past and current precedents. The same analysis they use to go after Microsoft, or Google/Alphabet, or any other company with "monopoly power."

Do you think that if only FDA or USDA approved supermarkets could sell food that the markups wouldn't be 2-3-4-5x as high ?

This is a government-sanctioned oligopoly/monopoly that is EASILY ID'd as the cause and source of the premiums. It's not even a difficult case. No private actor would even ATTEMPT to get away with this, it's so blatant.

Only the U.S. government would rip-off its citizens like this.

Here's one for you: during the Covid emergency, testing was FREE to all Americans as the government reimbursed all doctors, hospitals, insurance plans, etc. What do you think would have happened if all the doctors in a (rural) state said they were charging a $100 "testing surcharge" to cover incidentals, time, etc..??

The government and media would be all over them within hours.

So you're OK with these premiums tripling and staying that way for 3+ years ?

Like I said, I don't buy ASEs but many here do and I think it's important they understand exactly what is going on. Anybody here who is a financial investor and has tracked the bid-ask spread stuff the last 30 years knows what I am talking about. Spreads used to be $0.25-$0.50 on lots of NASDAQ and OTC stocks, sometimes even on NYSE-listed issues. Now, 99% of them are pennies -- even 1/16th of a dollar (~ 6 cents) was too much for the government, even on a $50 or $100 stock (< 1/10th of 1% markup).

Now the same government is saying that a 30-40% markup is all fine and dandy.

Again.....open up ASE re-selling to ALL authorized (verified) dealers...instead of a dozen or whatever, you'll have hundreds.

The premiums will fall to 5-7% in days.

 

When there's a good public-health justification for ensuring free access to ASEs, we can talk.

 

And if you'd put that same $1,000 into silver 40 years ago, it would be worth roughly $530 in today's dollars. (Silver went from $13.96 in Feb 1983 to $22.16 today; meanwhile, the dollar's value dropped by about 2/3.)

If you'd put $1000 per year into silver over that period, dollar-cost averaging would have worked to your favor (no, I'm not going to do all the math) -- but it would still have far, far underperformed any reasonable basket of equities.

 

Productive real estate.