"She had depended on the gold coins for her retirement"

You might be thinking of when a Roman army sacked a Roman city that was in active rebellion, or was ruled by a rival emperor. It may have happened then, but only if the sack of the city was due to military struggles, not just to pillage it.

I hear what you are saying about similarities between us and the fall of Rome. I tell people the similarities all of the time. The western empire had three classes of citizens, the plebiscite taking handouts in the cities, the really rich landowners, and the middle class small farmers. It's a simplification but close enough. The Romans themselves stopped wanting to serve in the military, so the Romans had to hire mercenaries. To do so, they kept raising the taxes year after year. When they got too high, the rich simply hired soldiers to kill any tax collector coming on to the property, and the poor didn't pay taxes, they simply demanded more and more free stuff. So the burden of the higher taxes fell on the middle class small farmers. Problem was, there is a poino where people see the poor are living better than those working hard, and decide to just give up and become one of the poor to get stuff for free. So, the class, and the tax base, just whithered away. By the end, they estimate over two thirds of all small farms were simply abandoned, producing nothing, because of overtaxation.

So I understand your point, and can put it in an historical context. I point this out all of the time. I hate the path this country is on. I simply believe, though, that pm isn't the store of value it once was. In the scheme of things it's not the huge reserve asset it was in antiquity. As such, I just do not believe the US will try to forcibly take my junk silver.

If you do believe it will get bad enough the US will be forced to liquidate granny's brooch, and all other sdb items, you are free to do so. I simply believe they have way easier ways to steal from the middle class, ways that would not cause a major backlash. I still believe it will be prudent to own pm in such a situation, as protections against inflation, which is governments penultimate theft of wealth.

 

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Laws differ from state to state slightly, but the basic premise is you can only use deadly force to protect life, not property. That is why in the supreme court years ago ruled a booby trap at a property is illegal. Someone setting it up is defending property with deadly force.

If you remember this principal, the laws make more sense. I am not saying I agree with it, I simply understand it.

 

In MO, if you use deadly force (and shooting at someone counts as deadly force, no matter which body part you're aiming at) to stop someone who's running away from you, YO will not get you very far in court.

I'm not a firearms expert, but if you're thinking in terms of "aiming for their legs/feet/arms", it's my understanding that you need more training.

 

OK, fair enough, let's turn it around a bit, let's just say that some Roman citizens did get their property raided.

Now for the issue of SDB's we of course are not talking about what is remotely possible, but what is the better choice. Is it your belief, that it would be safer to keep your PM at home where we are certain, 1 million homes get their homes raided each year, using the justification that the Roman Empire raided homes 2000 years Ago? Also remember, it is them realm of possibility that the government will raid your home too.

 

Medoraman: It was an Armstrong blog:"...In the case of Rome, armies began sacking Roman cities to pay for their unfunded pensions..." I'll post the link in a minute.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/06/10/its-taxation-deflation/&sa=U&ei=fqCfU_3vM8qZyASEz4DoBA&ved=0CA0QFjAB&sig2=owhRJdVIDc3XywPVxLlz8w&usg=AFQjCNHhOotO4p6xaUCQmvkvlvbfdcwIqg
About half way

 

I have no idea where his citation would be. Like I said, in periods of open warfare between rival emperors sometimes an army would pillage a conquered Roman city, but that had nothing to do with pensions. It was rewarding soldiers for capturing the city. However, most of the time it was prevented, since it would cost the emperor support of the Roman cities.

That is the problem with reading history from someone trying to make a modern point. You do not know if you can trust their history. I admit I am not a true expert in Roman history, many on the ancient section are more well versed than I. My specialty is more central asia, but I know enough of the Roman Empire to know the general jist. Just don't ask me to name all of the emperors, I only know about 3/4G of them.

 

The answer to your question mike is: today yes, twenty years ago no. I'd rather take my chances with stealth than rely on the strength of fortifications or the integrity of banks. If you or others like sdbs that's your business. I even have a sdb (since 1980) but there has never been enough in it to worry about.

 

And if someone intelligently weighs the risks and decides for him/herself their best course of action, I have no problem with it. My only intent in starting this thread was to discuss the pros and cons, and make everyone aware of the issue. If I did that I am happy. I know I am opinionated, but I do honestly believe everyone should decide for themselves. I just hope they think of all aspects and research the subject first before coming to their own conclusion.

It's an important subject, one way too many coin and pm collectors do not take seriously enough. It does no good to stack pm, for whatever reason, if the pm is gone before you get to use it, right?

 

IMO, the zoo hasn't even begun. Anyone who doesn't think for themselves today isn't going to have much of anything when it's over.

 

That quote from Armstrong seems to only have shown up in the last week. No earlier mention in google search beside his and other doomsday blogs. Perhaps he was misquoting ( so he could copyright it) the part from another earlier blog.

With the North African land rapidly turning into a desert, King Genseric of the Vandals (see his face on a “siliqua” coin in the figure), ruling the region, halted the shipping of grain to Rome in 455 CE, then proceeding to sack the city in the same year. That was the true end of Rome, whose population shrunk from at least a few hundred thousands to about 50,000. It was the end of an age and never again would the North African shores be exporters of food.

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/tag/silver/

The sunspot activity is getting quite bad , perhaps all PM will turn to sand because of the radiation. Just because it hasn't happened yet, that doesn't mean it won't J/K

 

Maybe the sunspot activity will block the fed from goosing the slop to the moon with "accommodative policies" and the wallstreet "talent" will have to make money the old fashion way. It could happen.

 

Not that my MIL or Mom would ever be cleaning my house, but I would strangle my housekeeper for this LOL

 

LOL, but it does happen, and I mentioned MIL becuase I do have one that cleans and she does throw out stuff. so far, nothing important....

 

Back to my original stance, I am still hesitant of SDBs. I don not feel "comfortable" with my PM in my safe either. I guess there is risk either way, although maybe more so in one arena than the other.

The clencher for me though is this: at least if my PM gets taken from my home, It was my decision to keep it there. I trust myself and my wife, and I trust our decision making abilities. If my decision gets my stash stolen, well it's on me. I just don't like the idea of my stuff being in the hands of a bank, although we all know we can trust the banks

My problem with banks is that if we face an economic collapse of some sort which causes our country to face a period of "chaos" where our social infastructure crumbles, I don't want to be left with nothing because I cant get into a bank vault.

Now I know most of you believe this is far-fetched or maybe that it's some sort of sensationalism, but the best part about our country is that every person has the right to believe what they wish and act on matters such as this in a way that is comfortable to them.

I am not trying to convince anyone to believe what I believe. I am just giving my reasoning for keeping my stuff locked in my safe at home.

I may however find a happy compromise and maybe do a 50/50 split with an SDB after this thread. That seems reasonable to me since I just had my will drafted and will be keeping it in an SDB anyways.

 

But that is relative too . From your point of view it is I that is the sheeple and following masses, but from my World it is you who is the follower who got snookered into the fear mongering sales pitch. It is always looks different looking at it from the inside vs the outside. So whether you believe it it or not, I always try to do my level best to back up my opinons with at least something. Something to think about, something to debate. It just seems to me, the folks on other side of the coin, wants us just to believe it because they said so.

 

Awesome..... yes, there is always the diversification option, you can keep more bases covered

 

I would not recommend keeping the original will in your SDB. The reason being, when you pass away, there may be legal hurdles to access your SDB to get to your will. Even if your wife also has access to your SDB, it may still require a court order and there is also the possibility that you and your wife pass away at the same time.

Think of your original will as the legal key to your SDB in the event of your death. If the keys are locked inside your SDB, that may complicate things.

From the FDIC web site:

 

My will will be kept in SDB, copy in home safe, copy at attorney's office, and copy at conservator's home. I think we have our bases covered...

 

I'm glad you know so much about me mike. Did you divine all that from our three minute discussion in coinmasters 12 years ago?/// "...It just seems to me, the folks on the other side of the coin, wants us just to believe it because they said so." /// Yeah, your right, it is all relative. So, as you waggle your finger at me and the other side of the coin, take a look at how many of your fingers are waggling at you.

 

Yes that is exactly what I am saying, what I think about about folks, they think about me. I know, I agree.

Now Remember now it was you who threw out this slavo

This is a direct attack at the folks who are not aligned with your thinking. What do you mean by that? what are you saying? When what is over? It seems like you just want to call us stupid if we don't think like you, but there is no logic here, no explanation, no nothing, just an insult. Honestly, what good does that do for any of us? I would like to debate this with you but it truly seems to me you have no interest in doing that.