Omega $20 High Relief up for bid

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by benveniste, Jan 29, 2023.

  1. benveniste

    benveniste Type Type

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  3. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    Garbage. If you're going to claim it's an Omega fake, show the markers.
     
    GoldFinger1969, benveniste and dwhiz like this.
  4. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    I wonder what @Insider thinks of this one?
     
    Mr.Q likes this.
  5. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I wish all of these things could be melted. I hear "undercurrents" at the shows when one is available from buyers who want the things. I wish they could resist the temptation.

    They won't let you download a picture for my "virtual black cabinet" of counterfeits.

    Here are the photos I have of an Omega counterfeit.

    1907 Hi Relief Omaga Det.jpg

    1907 hr saint omega counterfeit sign.jpg

    1907 Hi Relief Omaga O.jpg 1907 Hi Relief Omaga R.jpg
     
    -jeffB, GoldFinger1969, Mr.Q and 5 others like this.
  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Here are some things to think about...

    1. Gold label PCI coins are usually crap. The coins were graded by new owners who were not the best numismatists. This may be an example of a fake they missed.

    2. Now, for the folks who wish to control what others collect, page #97 of my Redbook values a counterfeit 1804 cent at $1000 in EF. I owned one of these decades ago and wish I had never sold it. Does anyone here think all these fakes should be melted too?
     
  7. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Yes, I do!
     
  8. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Who's "they" ???
     
  9. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    Easy to get around that.
    Screenshot 2023-02-02 at 12-43-35 1907 $20 GOLD HIGH RELIEF OMEGA MAN BU.png
    Screenshot 2023-02-02 at 12-44-17 1907 $20 GOLD HIGH RELIEF OMEGA MAN BU.png
     
    -jeffB likes this.
  10. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I think the "classic" counterfeits have the value....nobody I know wants a modern day Chinese or Joe Schmo Saint copy or 1804 fake.

    It's the ones from decades ago that have some nostalgic sentimental and numismatic (in a perverse sense) value.
     
  11. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Some contemporary counterfeits have value as a piece of history from centuries ago. The Omaga counterfeits were made to rip off collectors off maybe 50 years ago, but they are certainly nothing to celebrate and have dealers make profits from selling them.

    Please don't feed the beast. It will only get bigger. Using this logic, the Chinese counterfeits will be of value to the next generation of collectors.
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  12. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    ;) Remember this when you post. "Contemporary" is a moving period of time. Our involvement with Numismatics lasts less than a Century. That's a drop in the big bucket of opinions, standards, and popular collectables. Think about this: 1964 was 58 YEARS AGO! No one alive can predict everything that collectors of the future will desire. Think about that too.

    Another example: Circulated "micro "O" dollars are worth many times the value of their genuine counterparts. They were considered contemporary counterfeits at the turn of the Century when they were reported in newspapers of the day!
     
  13. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    johnmilton, posted: Some contemporary counterfeits have value as a piece of history from centuries ago. The Omaga counterfeits were made to rip off collectors off maybe 50 years ago, but they are certainly nothing to celebrate and have dealers make profits from selling them.

    Please don't feed the beast. It will only get bigger. Using this logic, the Chinese counterfeits will be of value to the next generation of collectors."

    It appears that we have reached agreement. As a matter of fact, according to actual sales, it must be concluded that CHINESE COUNTERFEITS are already valuable to collectors of this generation; and I expect it will continue into the next generation also. ;) Fortunately, you are not in control of what others collect.

    PS It is already bigger than you know; and you have not seen anything coming next!
     
    Jack D. Young likes this.
  14. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    To me a "contemporary counterfeit" is a Mahin's Mills piece that was made in the 1780s during the same time period that the genuine coins were struck. A "contemporary counterfeit" is not one that was made for collector consumption many decades after the original coins were made for circulation.

    So far what you choosing to decide what to collect, you are cutting your own collector throat if you make the Chinese garbage collectable items. If you want to market that crap, I would not be against the Secret Service coming and shutting your business down. I am usually a free market advocate, but if we make no effort to make the Chinese and other counterfeits unacceptable, we are looking at a bleak future for this hobby.
     
  15. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    Yes, I draw the line between "meant to pass as money" and "meant to fool collectors." The latter - throw in the garbage or melt them.
     
    Pickin and Grinin and johnmilton like this.
  16. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Dear John,

    :yawn: You are trying a very sly trick by bringing the "Straw Man" into this thread. I understand English pretty well and I failed to read anywhere in this thread about folks that collect counterfeits suggesting that they be sold to unsuspecting collectors.

    :yawn: Unfortunately, counterfeit coins have been around long before you, I, or our Great, Great, Great, Great Grandparents were born. ;) Today, the Chinese counterfeit coin problem is on the Treasury Depts back burner. They EXIST. Some of the Chinese garbage are already collectable items. People buy them for whatever the reason and people collect them for whatever the reason.

    I suggest you don't lose any sleep over it. Nothing reasonable that has been done to protect greedy or ignorant collectors has worked. :(

    PS I'll bet that for every counterfeit you melt that 200 are being struck to eventually replace it. :D
     
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  17. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    There probably is a fine line between "feeding the beast" and working to aid the Hobby...

    I have purchased recent Chinese fakes in order to document them and warn collectors about them- my 47 current Coin Week articles may attest to that. I have also documented the sellers and notified several government agencies about them both directly and through Doug Davis and the Anti-Counterfeiting Educational Foundation.

    I also display items for educational purposes at major coin shows as I can, especially EAC Conventions; trying to poke the beast, not feed it...
     
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  18. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I don't disagree on not "feeding the beast"....my point was that the Omegas were unique being (1) pre-TPG (2) signed by the "author" (3) the possible (?) link to Organized Crime (4) super-high quality compared to today's "cheapo" counterfeits (5) copies of an iconic American coin, one of the historic ones in numismatic

    Hey, I wouldn't want one. I'd rather spend the $$$ on an actual MCMVII HR or another mid-priced double eagle.
     
  19. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    One of my "cheapo" counterfeits!

    My-PCGS.jpg
    1872-s.jpg
     
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  20. Marsden

    Marsden Well-Known Member

    Good Lord. Beautiful! I'd be very happy to own that coin. At least until l looked up the cert.
     
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  21. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Yes, that counterfeit of the certified 1872-S half dollar is dangerous as hell. You would have to be very familiar with the real thing to spot it.

    There was another very dangerous counterfeit of the 1796 half dollar that Stacks sold many years ago. PCGS caught it. I’ll post pictures later.
     
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