So, now JPM is being blasted by owning TOO MUCH pm?

http://goldsilverworlds.com/physica...highest-amount-of-physical-silver-in-history/

Now Ted Butler is talking up how JPM owning too MUCH silver is "manipulation". Wasn't all of the pm gurus, including Butler, blasting JPM for yeaars how they didn't own ENOUGH pm and they were therefor illegally manipulating the market with pm they didn't own? So now, JPM buys more pm, and they are being accused them BUYING pm as being manipulation. Why doesn't Ted Butler come right out and just say "Whatever JPM does, buy pm, sell pm, hold the same amount of pm, all of it is "proof" of "manipulation".

I have a headache. Anyone care to explain to me how JPM doing what the pm gurus have asked for now is "manipulation"?

 

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I would explain it to you, but you already know the answer

 

As I've said before, sometimes markets, which can be thought of as a collective consciousness, reveal more than their individual participants. I think though PM permabulls are scoffed at in this forum, they are merely an expression, however seemingly radical, of market concerns over the Fed's ultra-easy monetary policy. The great swings in the PM market, manipulation talk aside, reflect real anxieties about our monetary system. I think the next few years will reveal which side is right, though it's possible some middle ground will be achieved.

 

I am not even commenting on whether pm is a decent deal at these prices at all. I have actually been buying, (until, that is, we decided to buy a new house a few weeks ago). I am just bewildered by what the heck the pm bulls WANT out of JPM. They were mad because they said JPM was selling pm they didn't own. Now, they are mad that JPM has bought the most silver in history. So......what the HECK do they want? Do they want JPM to own pm or no?

Its the seemingly incongruous statements that simply have me confused. Its like your neighbor complaining you do not own a dog, every month for years. Then, one day you buy a dog and they scream in your face, "What the HELL are you doing owning a dog"! Seems kind of psychotic in a way. Its this kind of, "no matter what JPM does we always treat them as an evil corporation that is actively trying to swindle me" that really does paint pm owners as the tinfoil hat crowd. I hate that, since I AM a fairly substantial pm owner. I have been for decades and continue to buy, and do not like being associated with such bipolar arguments in the pm media.

 

That's absolutely true. These discussions will go around and around, because investors here have formed their opinions. It's just a matter of time before the dust settles and we can see who is vindicated.

 

I don't think Ted is being contradictory. As I have pointed out, markets are manipulated, probably in very illegal ways, though I know that assumption is disputed here. This manipulation works both directions of the market -- up and down. What he is saying is that JPM's activities are manipulative, whether bearish or bullish on PMs. I also get the vibe that the banks are now secretly long PMs, though their analysts are publicly bearish on them. It's an understandable tactic to get PMs at low prices. It's similar to the Chinese buying massive quantities of gold and trying not to report it.

 

Yeah, but most people who read CT are not members. It doesn't hurt for them to read critical reviews of current articles being written, no?

I know I am viewed by many here as an "inside plant", some might even think I work for JPM or an investment bank or something. Nothing I say will dissuade them. All I can say is I am simply commenting on current pm articles and my view of their errors of logic. I hope no one ever believes I do not think owning pm is a bad thing, but I believe you should have a clear belief why you own them, and not just a bunch of carefully produced media hype or catchy phrases like, "pm never goes to zero", or "the dollar has to collapse", etc.

 

As I have said before, you strike me as somewhat bullish on PMs. It's just that we arrive at our conclusions differently. I am more of the conspiracy theorist type of investor than you are, but that does not change the fact that we both are buying PMs. I think anyone who assumes you are some kind of shill may need to get their head examined.

 

That explains a lot (no offense intended).

Personally, I prefer them to have what they say have, rather sell what they don't have.

 

The only way the dust settles is if time stops.

 

Buy the dip, what more needs be said? What other commodity besides silver is significantly cheaper than it was in 1980? Extremely undervalued.

 

That would be the same commodity that is now selling at a price that is 4 Times higher now than it was in 1982, making it overvaluled by your valuation methods.

It is a big mistake to make valuation judgements by cherry pickin' dates.

 

First you must know how the insane, the crazy, the foil hat wearing segment of the bullion community think. Then you have to pet a stuffed horsey while rocking in a chair in front of the window all day mumbling gibberish. Then you'll finally understand.

 

Now, Now, lets not get a rumble started over a stuffed horsey. Be nice .

 

I am all for people like Chris Duane and Mike Maloney getting criticized, but it does not help these discussions when members come in just to throw unwarranted insults at bullion investors. It would be the same as if I went to other forums and insulted people for their collecting preference -- like, say, collectors of three-legged buffaloes or copper cents.

If I wanted to hear labels and not debate points, I'd turn off the computer and watch the mainstream news all day.

 

I think that the article is more saying that they manipulated the paper market and are now taking advantage of that manipulation.

 

So, the last 30 years that they "manipulated the paper market" they DIDN'T profit then? Why only this year? Why not all other years? I am just trying to ask what the heck do pm junkies want JPM to do? JPM is the market maker, they provide liquidity to the market, a dn to do so they have to sell puts. That is how the market is designed. Do pm bulls want the pm market to basically have no market maker, for it to have no liquidity and basically have to go back to an old fashioned market that has 100 times more ways to be manipulated?

Just asking what the heck they want. All I have heard for years now is the whining that "JPM doesn't own any pm". Now that they have amassed the largest position in history, they STILL aren't happy. Will ANYTHING short of $500 silver and $10,000 gold make these people happy?

 

They did profit then.. The article is saying this is their latest play. I don't think all pm junkies will be upset with this, I don' think even the writer of the article was upset that they were accumulating physical, its probably a good play for pm holders.

 

That is exactly what the article is saying, but who is saying it? A guy whose job it is to push PM!!! Think this through, for several years now Butler has been dead wrong with his recommendations to buy Silver at $48 $38 $28 and so on.

So he blames it on the "manipulators" when his followers lose 60% of their investment, but it is still his job to push PM. So now he says, "See, the manipuators are now buying PM, you should too" It gets all wrapped up in a neat package.

On my side of the street it completely boggles my mind why people defend this lowlife.

 

You are probably right, I don't know or care who Butler is. Maybe he is similar to all those analysts, and ratings agencies who gave AAA ratings to mortgage backed securities based on "liar loans" right up to the financial crash.