Oh no, you mean a metal conspiracy group made stuff up??

http://www.kitco.com/news/2013-10-2...uire-Has-No-Metals-History-Silver-Summit.html

Evidently GATA, (Gold AntiTrust Action Committee), the ones going to the Feds claiming they had proof how the markets are manipulated, just made stuff up. They would not even respond to Kitco when confronted with proof their "expert" had no experience at all, and that the group effectively lied to Federal investigators.

I thought all of these anti-market groups were white knights who could not tell a lie, fighting the good fight for the little guy? Why would they blatantly lie? They wouldn't be funded by PM sales firms would they?

Btw, notice who did the reporting on the story. Kitco is not a well known anti-pm news source. I am actually happily surprised by their reporting on this issue. Good for them.

Again, yes I know there are 100 stories in the general media AGAINST pm ownership. There are so many I could not begin to relay them to this site. I post these articles simply to remind everyone its NOT one sided, people on "our side" can manipulate the truth, (and hopefully for them your purchasing decisions), as well. Always do your due diligence. I relayed this story mainly because some on this site a few years ago used this group and gentlemens claims as "proof" markets are manipulated and telling people they should buy more silver at $38 an ounce. How is that working out for everyone who believd them? Trust no one, do your own research.

 

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[quote=" Trust no one, do your own research.[/quote]

isn't that the truth?

 

So it appears by your post here that you believe PM's can not be manipulated and are blasting the guy trying to expose it based on a speech made by one individual who got his story from the guys ex-wife?? We won't mind the whole PM manipulation thing for now. Correct me if I'm wrong but you say you trust no one and to do your own research but yet make a post like this based on that information?? Really?

Well that news is about a week old, here are two articles in response to those allegations, the first from Andrews current employer and the second from Andrew himself, maybe you should research a bit more...

http://www.silverdoctors.com/andrew...onds-to-jeffrey-christians-fraud-allegations/

http://www.silverdoctors.com/a-formal-response-from-andrew-maguire/

 

His point is PM gurus are bad and JP Morgan Chase is good.

 

It doesn't exactly help your position when your "news" comes from a site known for pumping the price of silver... Post articles (or even editorials) from major news agencies, instead, and people might start to listen.

Beyond that, I firmly believe that OP was merely saying to verify your sources before taking action on what's reported...

 

Who should I trust?
A corporation consisting of individuals with years of schooling from the nations top Universities or a bunch of 50 year olds who live with there mom, contribute nothing to society and scream BUY Precious Metals with no solid understanding of any financial markets.

Seriously I don't know why you continue to try to change the minds of these people Chris; they aren't the brightest bunch and their opinions won't change regardless of how poor pm performs

There's an old saying in my country. You can lead a donkey to water but you can't make him drink

Go back to your little conspiracy corner Peace. Your pro pm stance and "anti banker" stance is starting to sicken me

 

A "silver doctor" isn't enough to help you friend; you should seek more professional treatment

 

Nope, I did my research just fine. The original article said it started with a tip from the ex-wife. Then the kitco reporter could not dispute any of it. Notice how these article refuse to acknowledge the basis of the kitco article was true, he WASN'T a metal trader at a firm at all. He only traded metal when he became a day trader.

So, some random day trader of pm self proclaims himself a pm expert, and an industry group uses his "expertise" to demand an investigation. Kind of different than a trader who performed this manipulation confessing, like the stories a few years ago portrayed. Since this incident was used by some here to "prove" pm is manipulated, I thought a followup was desired.

The only manipulation I see, beyond normal market participation on both sides, is the manipulation of small investors. Silver is down what this year, 35 percent?

 

I read both the Kitco article and the replies by Maquires company and by Maquire.

I would like to believe that one or the other might be somewhat truthful but here is what I get out of the articles, the Kitco article if true is very damaging to the reputation of Maquire, I find it very hard to imagine that any responsible reporter would post such an article without contacting and talking to the subject of the article.

Perhaps that is old fashioned of me, but usually when I read a smear piece it has the opposite effect that its writers intended, and that means the writer loses credibility with me.

The other thing is that the site that posted the replies has some very negative comments and nothing much that speaks to the issue, it seems to be answer a smear with a smear, if the allegations are untrue, it is easy enough to supply some sort of documentary evidence that would put the lie to allegations. Since that was not done, it either means where there is smoke there is fire, or the people who put together the replies did not realize that supplying copies of old letterheads or employment records would go much further to make a case than simply saying the source of the allegations has a vendetta against Maquire.

Bottom line, not enough information to make an informed judgement at this time.

 

You're welcome Fred. The investment banks are planning to save the world, and I'm sure you'll be the first one they save.

 

I think this is a reasoned, well informed opinion.

I would have had similar if the reporting wasn't done by a pm industry stalwart, (kitco), if the other side actually refuted the allegations that he never worked on the pm trading desk, or even if this case was not thrown in our faces on this board three years ago as "proof".

For those reasons, I thought it was appropriate to bring this story up here. I have a very long memory, and always hate how such boards never have any followup on articles.

 

Of course they are not, and they shouldn't. They should make money for their shareholders legally. JPM does this by being themarket maker in a commodity market that almost no one on this board participates in. As such, almost none of us has any real standing to complain one way or the other since we have not been damaged even IF they did something illegal.

 

Credibility gap here. Someone's beginning to look like a nut.......

 

Honestly? I do it for both posterity and for others who read this section but don't post. There are always more people reading this board than participating. I hope I might alert at least a few people that parroting what pm salespeople spoon feed us is not the basis to form investment decisions.

Myself, I probably lost over $10k in pm the last few years while my stocks have gone up dramatically. However, that is ok because I didn't drink the doomsday koolaid and sell everything to buy overpriced pm. If I save only one person that fate, I would be happy. Having said that, I view today's pm price as not completely out of line, and have been buying some on dips. PM is great, at the right price and in the right proportion.

Don't tell anyone though, since I am the resident pm hater on this board, right?

 

well believe what you will~

 

JJK... that quote is quite appropriate for you. You're now on my Detecto list.

 

Do you really mean this Medoraman? I am a bit confused here..are you saying that I have no right to "complain one way or the other" if I have not been personally damaged by the injustice, something illegal? La dee da, go on my merry way, if it doesn't affect me I have no right to an opinion on the subject. JPM ....hmmm, seems they have done some illegal things along the way. I would not rule out manipulation of metals based on he said, she said articles. Five years (I think five years..) is quite a long time for an investigation into allegations. You can bet there is more to this story than you or I will ever find out. I don't believe the guy is/was a "random day trader" either, as you described him.

I do however agree with doing ones own due diligence.

Lucy

 

Lucy, if a law was broken then of course collectively as Americans we are interested since its our laws. However, that is pretty much the end of it for most PM owners. I say that since most pm owners DO NOT PARTICIPATE in these markets. We do not buy/sell/or hedge there. We may be interested in them since people seem to price what we buy off of them, but we are not direct participants in this market. The market does not CARE what we think of it, or if we use its numbers for our purposes. We pay them nothing, so we have no voice in thier decision making processes.

So, of course, if a law is broken in this market I am as involved as I am if someone steal a purse or someone commits mortgage fraud. They are collectively all of our laws, so in that regard we are all involved in their prosecution. My only point is just because I might buy junk silver DOES NOT give me any more right to be involved in illegal trading of silver, or have the silver market give a crud about my opinions, than any man on the street.

Regarding 5 years of investigations, that is not very uncommon in these types of things. Heck, a whole lot of investigations into the 2008 market collapse are still ongoing. I do not think you can imply guilt simply by how long the government takes to look at something.

As to the "trader", they have not disputed he was NOT a pm trader, and never traded pm at all until he started doing it on his own dime as a daytrader. Yet this man was trotted out in 2010 as a "whistleblower" with "20 years of brokerage experience and a pm expert". The only person who really declares him a pm expert is himself and others who wish to use him. If he never traded pm professionally, how is he any different than anyone on this board?

 

Guess i'm just crazy, JP Morgan is a squeaky clean company who would never defraud anyone for something as petty as profits~ How much are the fines they have been ordered to pay again? $6,000,000,000?? No way they could be trying to rig the markets, not them...

http://moneymorning.com/2013/05/06/five-scandals-that-made-jpmorgan-wall-streets-worst-villain/

 

I posted this original article sir to show how GATA effectively lied to the Feds about their star witness.

I have no idea how you have turned this into me championing JPM. Did they do it? I have no idea. I do not work for them, I do not own their stock, I do not trade on the exchange for pm, I seriously have no involvement. My comments have always been putting "evidence" into context, and showing how a large percentage of it was NOT "proof" of manipulation as others assume. Maybe there IS proof, I just have never seen it.

I was simply showing how there is no "white knight" in all of this, that even those people believe are "on our side" do not have clean hands.

Btw, your post earlier stating how "idiots do not know they are idiots"....... Really? We are trying to have a discussion and you resort to calling members here idiots? I really didn't think that was necessary. Let's all of us endeavor to keep the discussion above board and respectful. I know I can be accused of muckraking, based upon the articles I post, but I do it to spur thought and debate, not to insult anyone.