2013 West Point ASE set

My set of 70's came today... LOVE!



For those of you wondering, current pop is -

Reverse Proof - 108
MS - 153

Very early in the game obviously, but fairly lopsided already.

 

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I still say that this is NOT an uncirculated coin. I contend that it's an enhanced proof.

 

where'd those 70's come from? I have some on order from Goldmart

 

So the question comes down to whether or not this coin is an enhanced "Unc" or enhanced "Proof". I guess we can all agree that it's been "enhanced". The US Mint calls the coin "Enhanced Uncirculated". You describe the coin as "Enhanced Proof". The coin certainly exhibits at least one (1) trait that's associated with Proof coins...a frosted finish.

However, keep in mind that in the early days "frosting" was an inadvertent by-product of Proof die preparation...not all proof coins exhibited "frosting". In fact, the characteristics that separated a Proof coin from a business strike were...

1. Die preparation
2. Strike pressure
3. Number of strikes
4. Design (sometimes)

...frosting not being one of them.

Today, since the "deep cameo" appearance is so desirable amongst collectors, the Mint has developed a machine that uses lasers to specifically create a texture that approximates earlier frosting techniques such as sandblasting. This laser technique is no longer a by-product of Proof die preparation, but an artificial enhancement that (until now) has been reserved for Proof coins.

However, there's no "rule" that stipulates this artificial enhancement technique be reserved for Proof coins. In this case, this enhancement technique is being used on "Uncirculated" coins; coins that don't have extra pressure, strikes, or design modifications applied...characteristics typical of "Proofs". I have to agree with the US Mint on this one...(jmho).


US Mint description of this coin...

 

Should an uncirculated coin be generally less "sharp" with a less defined design than an equivalent proof design?

 

I can't speak for anyone else, to me it looks like the fields have a mirror finish like a proof. Maybe it's the pics but all of the one's I've seen they look more like proofs than uncirculated. I was under the impression the fields would be frosted, but a lighter frost than the devices.

 

All of the big buying retailers have theirs graded and shipped to their customers already?
Why the preferential treatment by the mint?

 

Because they buy in volume??

 

I placed my order at 12:49pm 49mins after it went on sale. Tracking still says 'Order request in process', has anyone received there's that order after me?

 

Yak:

The frosted devices have nothing to do with my opinion except to further bolster it. I refer to it as an enhanced proof rather than uncirculated because of the mix of both mirrored and frosted surfaces. The background and many parts of the devices are mirror finished. Mirror finish IS a trait of proof coins, and since about 1980, frosted surfaces are as well.

But an even bigger reason for my objection to the use of the term uncirculated with this coin is simple. Every uncirculated ASE, not the regular bullion issues, but the ones sold directly to collectors from the Mint which feature a W mintmark (the Mint calls them uncirculated) have no mirror surfaces. They are flat and matte.

The only ASEs sold to this point with mirror surfaces are the proofs. With that in mind I say that this coin better fits with the proof coins than the uncirculated.

 

Last I heard from the mint, in the early days of the modern commem program, was that the exact same process used for proofs (i.e. more strike pressure and double struck) was used for the “uncirculated” version – the only difference being die preparation (i.e. mirrored fields). It appears to be the same scenario for other mint products like the special set ASE’s. This is why many regard “uncirculated” versions to be matte proofs. The coin is what it is regardless of whoever puts the label on it.

 

Quite true, DT, but when you put a loupe on the coin you see that the fields are burnished. The perceived mirroring is found to be nothing more than a highly reflective surface.

 

And thanks to Peter for fixing that data error so I could post in this thread again.

 

My cancel box disappeared this morning. Shipping today?

 

If not today then very shortly........

 

Mine too.
My order went through at 12:50. Cancel box gone this morning and cc charge pending.

 

It's the darndest thing, but in over 25 years, I've never found an ASE in circulation. Nor would I suppose have most others, even though the remotest possibility exists that someone somewhere has, and/or will eventually find one in circulation. However, at this rate, I'd have to say that no matter what fancy name one subscribes to, what in-depth break down of surface differences and engineered dynamics we decide makes one coin different from another version, or what sort of surface gimmicks the Mint tries to come up with to sell these NIFC coins to collectors, they're all technically, uncirculated. :smile

 

My order was moved up two weeks and has now been moved back one month. A net loss of two weeks. It appears we have added inconsistancy of shipping dates to difficulty of ordering from the mint site on opening day. My shipping scenario is a great example of one step forward and two steps back.

 

All of this date confusion is because of the mint taking care of the big boys before shipping to the average collector.

 

Dang. I ordered mine at 12:45, and my cancel box is gone, but I'm still reserved and in stock.