August Price Ideas?

also look for a little numismatic value

 

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This...

If you bought lunar tigers in 2011 for $50, which you could've done very easily you could have a return of $70 to $80 today, or the ox for the same money...or maybe your could've gone back to the end of 2010 and bought the RCM wolf, that would've been a good one...or last year the RCM moose, and even the cougar that it seemed like they couldn't give away...hmmmm...I wonder if there are any more easy plays along these lines....

 

I agree with this strategy. Why stress out about this now? Nobody knows what the POS will be in August. When you get the cash, look at the market. If the POS looks good to you, buy at that time. If not, find another investment or wait on the sidelines ready to strike. TC

 

Lol, from a more recent post downstream of here, I can see you are talking about collectible silver, I hate to cool down your heart, but I certainly believe you. The issue is you are not making money on the bullion value, but the collectible component. To put it in perspective, if you were telling me how worthless paper is, and I responded not true at all, and to back up my argument, I told you I just sold my Mickey Mantle baseball card for $1100 and that is proof paper is worth a lot of money. Well my guess is you would tell me, that my argument is rubbish, and you would be right. The paper was only the medium, the collectible was printed on. It was the collectible component that drove the price. Same is so with collectible silver. The silver is merely the host of the collectible. I do admit with silver it is not as cut and dry, because a silver coin could have two component making up its value.The bullion value which would of course be around spot, and the collectible component making up the remainder of the value.

 

Sorry, but I pointed out several examples of silver that were issued as bullion. While a couple of them are known to have collectible value, some were not at the time they were issued because they were a new issue item. My point still stands that yes, you can buy bullion issue silver and it can appreciate much higher than trending spot or spot plus a couple dollars. Your Mantle example is not really a good example as it was issued as a collectible in the first place, and that's why I didn't bring up the Mongolian owl or Tiffany Cathedral issues, as the silver content doesn't really have anything to do with the release pricing.

 

Well just substitute the baseball card with postage stamps.

 

I guess my opinion would be anything that has an issue price above the going rate for a ASE or Maple Leaf would be a collectible. So I would include proofs, commemorative issues, etc. If an ASE is $25 today, any coin being issued for $30 or more is really a collectible. I would also include silver pandas into this group.

So I agree with you Peace there is room for flipping modern silver issues, I am just disagreeing with you these are truly bullion. Maybe a small point, but one I believe is important to bullion stackers nonetheless. Btw, I do think combining bullion with numismatic coins is a good way to go, you simply have to always remember WHY you are buying. Are you forming a collection as a hobby or buying coins as your way of buying bullion. That answer will dictate what kind of premiums you should be willing to pay. Too many people get caught up paying higher and higher premiums, when in fact they really only intend to stack bullion. In that case, those premiums are shorting your stack of ounces it otherwise would contain.

 

My point is I buy the issues that I believe will have an appreciation over short or medium term to pay for the cheap bullion that I stack. If I'm going to buy this stuff to hold onto, why not learn what is available and take advantage of it? Net result is if somebody else is willing to pay more later, why shouldn't I let them? It's just like the W ASE sets I ordered, I didn't order them to keep them, I have a specific plan in place and will implement that plan. I may lose a little, but there is also an opportunity to hit it very well and have the first few pay for the other couple that I will hold in anticipation of a greater medium term return.

Don't take this the wrong way, I've made mistakes and have stuff that I just don't bother with any more. If it comes back, that's fine, if not it's not the end of the world. I don't have to hit every one perfectly to get ahead, just more hits than misses. Just like in business, I don't have to win every time, my wins need to outweigh and pay for my losers....

 

Nope, that argument simply does not hold water. There are many examples, lets just look at one. Let's take a 1900 Buisness strike Indian head cent. That was issued for 1c as metal backed currency, it was not fiat. It was by no means issued as a collectible. Today, a fresh MS 64 would sell for $250. You simply cannot argue that since it was not issued as a collectible that means you must be getting the $250 from the copper value of the penny. What actually happend is the copper is only worth 3 cents but over the course of time the item morphed into a collectible and that is where the remaining value comes from.


C'mon Peace, give a man his props, that was just game, set, and match I would do it for you.....

Mike

 

Did you have to buy that cent in a pack with some gum and hope you got the right one? Maybe you could go back in time and buy a roll from the mint and sit on them until now?

No game, no set and not match...you see, you're talking about something that was made 100 or 50 years ago and letting time equalize it. I'm talking about buying something now, and having it pay within a year or two.

 

I don't see your point, just talking about a fresh run of the mill cent from the mint which would probably grade around 64. I am not speaking about a super gem or anything. We can drop it to 63 if you like and then the value is about $100, but the point is exactly the same. It wasn't a collectible and now it is.

Mike

 

Right, you just let me know when you find a 100 business strike cent in a roll that will grade MS60 and I'll believe this holds water. Come on, you're talking about a needle in a haystack and I'm talking about buying something today that is readily available and having it bring you a very short term return.

 

Peace, what are you talking about? I am talking about the past. You could get rolls and rolls and rolls that were completely filled with 63 -64 in 1900 for 50 cents a roll. It takes time to morph into a collectible. In your silver example you did not buy it at bullion price and right then and there you could sell it at a collectible price. That took time too. Over time it morphs into a collectible

Both cases, it is exactly the same. Bought at metal price, time passes, it gains collectible value. In the penny case after 114 years, it gained 24,000% Your example obviuosly did not have the same return, but one of the reasons is simply the timeframe was shorter.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot, How much is a good inherent going for now a days

 

You're talking about something that is over 50 or 100 years old, I'm talking about something I've purchased over the last 2 that was made in the last 2 and the appreciation was good enough to allow me to buy more of what I buy.

I'm done with this nonsense, we've hijacked his thread to the point that it's a petty argument over something that may be related, but not close to the same thing.

 

Well I am cetainly not done, the time frame is irrelevant. My example could have been a Presidential Dollar issued at one buck and then two year later some asute collectors noticed a interesting die variety and the value jumps to $70. It started out as currency with minimal value and it morphed into a collectible with considerably more value. Same thing as your bullion example. Your profit or premium to bullion has nothing to do with what the bullion is worth. To prove the point further, one of the huge arguments on what a magical wonderful material silver is by the stacker crowd is the fact it is fungible. This coming right out of the stacker playbook

Here is the def

Fungible
Law Returnable or negotiable in kind or by substitution, as a quantity of grain for an equal amount of the same kind of grain.



So how could one oz. of bullion in one coin be worth $21.00 and be worth $48.00 in another It cannot.

One more time Peace, its really is time to admit defeat. Like I said. I would do it.

 

Because people in the marketplace are willing to pay the $48 for the item with $21 of silver in it.

Maybe you should just admit that the only reason you post on here is to argue...

 

Don't worry it'll be worth $48 an ounce again, when I don't know, but it will be back.

 

Yup everyone's gotta make their choices and deal with the consequences, that's life.

 

100% agree. Just like bread will be $10 someday, and a coke will someday be $5 (outside of a ballpark or amusement park), silver will be $48 and gold will be $2000. WHEN is the key, though, and the one thing no one here is bright enough to know. My crystal ball broke a long time ago.

I always find it funny the logic of "hard asset" guys. I am not just talking about PM people so chill out everyone. Its just humans get a number on their heads, and if they hold an asset long enough they think they "profited". Buy land in 1986 and sell in 2012 and think about all of the "profit" they made. Well, maybe yes and maybe know. No way of knowing unless you take inflation into account. Sure, the IRS doesn't help by making you pay cap gains on this "profit", but financially a profit is only achieved if you beat inflation. I am the same, its hard not to be. When I think of the cost of most of my silver I think its $4 an ounce, in reality its $4 an ounce multiplied by the last 20 years of inflation. My real cost is much higher today, even though I physically only paid $4 an ounce in the early 90's.