When should unethical or illegal activity with coins and bullion be reported?

Yes...except as regulated under the Commerce clause. :thumb:

I gotta say...you're a little scary 'Gem!

You need to understand...the Constitution doesn't "grant" rights to the People; ALL rights belong to the People. The Constitution enumerates some limited rights (and only those rights) which have been granted "by the People" to the Federal Government.

...that's how a Republic works.

 

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Yes, but the "promote the general welfare" clause gives the a hole big enough to drive anything through. "Promoting the general welfare" has been used for everything in the modern state.

Philosophically I am with you Yak, but in practicality and Constitutional Law I am with Jim.

 

Really???, A lot of folks have that justification for doing things like not paying taxes and such, but the justification holds no water. When someone cheats the "government" it is no skin off their nose, they will get their money, most likley by "charging" other folks more. So in reality, it is the people on the street like me you are hurting. If you want to fight the government, do it with you vote, do it in court, do it by protesting, heck, you can even run for office, but please pay your taxes. It is highly unethical not to.

 

Illegal? Really? Have you read a newspaper recently? Do the names Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning and Julian Assange mean anything to you?

I'm 100% sure that the NSA has a complete copy of everything ever written on this forum, too. Including anything may have been deleted by anyone. Without a warrant! And, as per the Patriot Act, it's all perfectly legal.

 

That is why I added the or should be part. Keeping tabs on anyone should require a warrant with a very good reason behind it in my opinion.

Edward Snowden is an American hero!

 

Well in reality they will just get another loan from China, Japan or even more likely the Federal Reserve.

Everyone has their own set of ethics, and should do what they believe is right. (what you believe is ethical does not govern all)

 

And who pays back that loan, the government? I don't think so, it is the taxpayers. You can spin it any way you want, but when someone cheats on taxes, John Q. Public, the honest taxpayer pays more. So, while my view of ethics does not govern all, it does define me as the person I am, as does yours.

 

The amount the U.S. government owes can never be paid back at its current value, there will either be an outright default or an unofficial default through high inflation.

Maybe instead of worrying about a few tax cheats you should concentrate your focus on the billions, even trillions of taxpayer dollars wasted on senseless wars, spying on innocent american citizens, and other such government waste of taxpayer money.

 

So to summarize your position, you are saying it is OK for tax cheats to shift their burden to honest tax payers as long as there are other big problems. I respectfully, disagree with that.

 

Don't worry Mikem - the government and it's IRS, DHS, NSA etc already knows more about you than you do. Like I said earlier in this thread - at least in Soviet Russia you knew they were spying on you.

 

Actually, I just participated in a poll, and 70% of the respondents felt the Government was going too far with its covert activities. So, I think the American public is aware also.

On a lighter note, I pity the fool who is assigned to me as he is likely to die of boredom before he can report back to homebase. In addition, if they really wanted to know what toppings I like on my pizza, they could have just asked

 

I'm saying that concentrating on the major issues is the most effective plan of action. If a majority of the population said stop the out of control spending on the military/wars how could they ignore us? and something could actually be done about this issue.

How do you propose stopping tax cheats?

 

I'm not in that camp. I'd contend that doing anything you suggest gives the government the illusion of legitimacy, and makes it seem like it belongs to us (as it actually should, according to law).

BTW, I pay my taxes. I just don't see the difference if others don't want to.

 

Most people do that...they stop at "Welfare". It takes on a whole new meaning if you finish the sentence. The Welfare of the "People" is a right granted to the States or the People themselves...as explicitly reinforced by the 10th Amendment.

This has been settled law since US v. Butler...

That's why there was so much dust-up over the Affordable Healthcare Act (I choke on those words). It went to the Supreme Court and they had to figure out something in the Constitution that permitted Congress to pass this law. They settled on the Commerce clause...

However, Chief Justice Roberts struck down the individual mandate in his decision...

 

I never suggested we increase our efforts to stop tax cheats, I believe the majority of Americans have the ethical fortitude to do the right thing, here is a link that supports my position

www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/tax-cheating_n_2772773.html

The other problems you mention are huge, but their existence should no way justify someone skipping out on their individual burden, as specified by our constitution. Notice, the part "shall be uniform". One person cheating and one not is not uniform.

The Constitution of the United States tells us “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and General Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.”

 

Well guys, its been a pleasure chatting, but I am bowing out now and giving you a chance to have the last word, as it is only a matter of time until this thread gets shut down for being political.

Cheers,
Mike

 

That's my favorite part...and it stops the tax cheats!

 

Nothing political so far...but it could take a turn. I'm outta here, too.

Good Night All...

 

Patriot act

Any transaction in excess of $10,000 needs to be reported under the Patriot act. Why? If coin buying/selling were not included, the "bad guys" (terrorists, drug dealers, etc) could simply buy and sell coins to effect the transfer of money all over the world. It's already been done (reportedly) with Bitcoin which isn't even REAL!!

 

Umm that's not what the Constitution means by "uniform", uniform means the Federal government can't charge different people different rates. Remember when the constitution was written the founders were 100% against an income tax, imposts, duties, excise taxes are all taxes you paid and unless you were involved in manufacturing, selling, important, and exporting ie a business, you would really only be paying excise taxes which would be built into the of the product you were buying. All these types are indirect taxation.

A direct tax (tax on income, property, capital gains) had to be apportioned based on population, since that was nearly impossible essentially direct income tax was unconstitutional....

That is until the progressives/liberals used a page from Satan's playbook to trick the population into supporting an income tax and passed the 16th amendment. Telling the public that they'd get all this additional government services for a mere 1% for those making under $20k (FYI $20k was a **** ton of money back than about $475k in today's dollars) and that the ultra wealthy will pay their fair share (sound familiar?) which was between 2%-7%, 7% being on anything over $500k. People thought hey that's a good deal, so what that government is going to be stealing from use, it's only 1% and look what we'll be getting to return. Little did they know that it was the beginning of the end, by the end the decade 1920 tax rates would sky rocket and those making $4k or less were now taxed at 4%, people making $20k 17%, and those making $500k government was stealing up to 71% of their income. The 16th amendment along with the federal reserve is what will destroy the country because with those the government has all the control over the people.