TheLonger Term Implications of Basel III (January 2013) - Gold's Triumphant Return?

LOL You didn't understand my point NOR what I said. (Also: you know nothing about my offshore acct rates.)
Euros (fiatcos) are Money, but they FAIL to work as you & cloudsweeper99 insist Gold must - in "your" retail entities.
Ergo: Euros are NOT "Money" right? (reducio ad absurdum)

Credit/debit cards do function as Money, obviously, but also fail to meet all the definitional criteria (as InfleXion proved) ... so too 'Not Money.'

And I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, medoraman: you wrote

I've given you a long list of entities that are doing this ALREADY. They don't have to be BoA or Walmart either.
Whether or not you further conclude it's "economical" or "foolish" - or whatever other hoops you decide to add to the ever-qualified and obviously straining Paper-Bug argument - is irrelevant too. Sorry!

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I think your argument is easily refuted. Gold is up more than 6X in price denominated in USD over the past dozen years ago. Are the prices of goods and services up? No. Gold is down about 12% from its high price. Did the price of goods and services drop? NO. Silver rose from $5 to $50 and back down to $25 or so. Did the price of goods and serviced move even remotely in the same direction? No. Gold was about $800 in 1980 and about $250 20 years later. Did prices drop by two thirds between 1980 and 2000? No.

I like gold and silver a lot, but all of these fantasy stories about gold giving it mystical properties that it never possessed only confuses and drives away potential investors who don't like the crackpot logic that seems to go with investing in gold. It will also cause a lot of the true believers to go over the "gold cliff" when it comes, and it will come, just as they did in 1980 and as the tech stock investors did in 2000. It is enough to say that gold was once money and is still a good asset for preserving purchasing power as long as you don't overpay. That's enough.

 

One word: Manipulation.

You think gold as a stand alone currency would fluctuate like it currently does? What potential reasons could it move 6x over a decade? Obviously it wouldn't, there is no possible way the value could increase 6x times over. Unless some aliens came down and took away 80% of the world's gold on their spaceships.

About 6 billion oz of gold have been mined throughout history and about a 100 million oz are mined a year now. That is a stable currency, the only reasons that it fluctuates like it does is because its valued in dollars and market manipulation.

 

The obvious answer is that gold is a commodity and acts like a commodity. No grand visions of manipulation, aliens and conspiracies are necessary to explain it. The idea that it should be stable because there is so much of it ignores the fact that most of it is not for sale at any given time, so there is a relatively small "float" available to respond to changes in supply and demand. Unfortunately, there are a lot of internet "experts" who can spin a tall tale of intrigue so they get paid for writing a column interesting enough to attract an audience. The fact that they are deceptive and might hurt a lot of investors is of no concern to them.

 

Oh come on Cloud, those stories HAVE to be true. What else could explain the EXACT SAME stories have been written for at least 35 years now, and the same manipulation is still occurring. Doesn't matter if silver is selling for $1.50 an ounce or $40, its still continually being manipulated by the same people constantly. Pay the author $45 and he will tell you why........

 

The International Organization for Standardization (ISO 4217) recognized Gold as a currency (XAU) for transactions; the United States is a signatory to this body. The United States recognizes Gold a currency.
http://www.currencysystem.com/codes/

Bleating panicking Paper-Bugs need to shriek &howl at their Congressmen to formally declare "Gold is not Money" and void US participation in any international body recognizing XAU first.
UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, Gold is (read: remains) Money because Au is ALREADY recognized by CBs and financial institutions as such.

'Flat Earth' Paper-Bugs need to get a grip: Gold is Money because it's always been so (for millenia, in modern times, under Capitalism, etc.) Serious bankters just took it off the streets (out of the pockets of the easily-fleeced sheeple) and loaded up their own vaults with the "real" stuff... while dumping ever-depreciating & silly promissory Monopoly money on the same stupid dupes. hth

"Got Gold?" Those who get it already do; pity only the poor who cannot afford it.

 

Isn't it the rule of thumb that once someone brings up Hitler in a thread that the thread pretty much is dead?

That is how I am viewing it, from "bankster's" to comparing PM manipulation to the holocaust, I am out.

 

Sorry, Tinpot, but Hitler, gun law, terrorism and what you "know" but can't say don't count as evidence that gold is money and not a commodity. Gold and silver were manipulated even when they were money, and stock prices since the inception of the corporation. Nothing new or relevant. Better to put your trust in the law of supply and demand.

 

Btw I am not saying I have all the answers, I certainly don't. But if you don't think there is massive manipulation going on in the markets, media and elsewhere (not just concerning metals) then I can tell you without a doubt you are wrong.

 

It matters not whether gold is money.

 

I find it funny that you are now admitting manipulation but earlier were acting like it was not occurring hmmmmm.

 

Try Black's Law Dictionary then. It will confirm everything I've said, and is the only one that matters in a court of law. Also, the US dollar is not durable enough to pass the test. You are correct that the USD is the unit of account being used, but that doesn't mean gold is not also a unit of account. That would be like if someone had 2 cars, and said the 2nd car wasn't really car because they never drove it.

 

Who is the manipulator? The central banks buying gold? The central banks selling gold? The hedge funds long gold futures? The hedge funds short futures? The Federal Government trying to get people to avoid gold? The US Mint selling gold to the people? The mining companies selling gold short? The mining companies hoarding gold? The TV advertisements selling gold? The TV advertisements to buy gold? The ETFs encouraging gold ownership? The ETFs trying to get people to sell them gold? And exactly what are the manipulators trying to achieve? If they are trying to keep the price down, they are doing a bad job of it and frequently acting against their best interests.

 

I removed 2 posts and want the poster to stop with the political~ world event conspiracies.

There are plenty of bullion sites to post such.

 

I could show you all the evidence but it would not matter because you have already decided on your position. It would be like trying to convert a zealous christian/atheist/muslim (whatever religion) that they are mistaken, it's impossible!

Some people will merely never change their views, I think its often a subconscious means of protection. (i know a lot of people who have never been wrong about anything and never will be)

Have you ever seen the movie Inception? I believe it is quite similar to that, the only way to convince some people would be if you can somehow make them think its their own idea.

 

Fair enough, your house, your rules, I won't make any more posts regarding this.

 

Gold hardly ever changes in value. It is the currencies that change in buying power that causes the gold price to fluctuate more than all other factors. Therefore any perceived volatility in this market is simply the currency volatility primarily, and secondarily a bunch of paper speculators that have nothing to do with the actual metal. I could show you a gold chart, and you might say the chart is volatile and be correct, but to say that gold is volatile would be incorrect. It is the currency, not the gold.

You simply have fallen victim like so many others to the manipulation of definitions over the course of many years. My attempts to correct these common misconceptions might be construed as twisting, but what I am doing is untwisting. If you believe the new definitions to be more correct than the ones I deem to be correct then I completely understand where you are coming from, but you are wrong. Feel free to ignore information and believe what you want. All I care about is that other people know how real money works. It is currency that you are using to feed your family. I have explained the differences ad naseum so I will just leave it at that.

 

I use it in the sense that investors have always tried to profit from price fluctuation in every asset category, and sometimes initiated the fluctuations themselves. So there is nothing new, nothing to see and nothing special about changes in gold prices. This is contrary to the writings of most gold-but authors.

 

So much for Tinpot's manipulation theories... It's a house of cards for the gold bugs, and you can't have it both ways -- gold never changes in value, but gold is manipulated.

 

Inflexion, I am not trying to be derisive, but this statement has occurred many times and it doesn't make sense.

This is like saying that "the heat of an object hardly ever changes in value, it is the temperature number that causes it to fluctuates..."

A value has to be measured to be a 'value' so what is the inert value of 1 ounce of gold? And please not the ancient suit of armor stuff...something measurable.

~ typing while cloud was posting
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