Modern silver coins?

I'm just trying to figure out different opinions about the modern silver proof coins vs 90% junk silver. My coin shop has a few rolls of 90% proof state quarters right from mint sets and wants $250/roll. Would you guys buy them? Do you think they would be easier or harder to get rid of when it's time to sell?

 

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I for one have more interest in those than the pre-65 equivalents. At 25x face today, that's not at all bad and if my intent were to buy 'junk', I would buy them over that in a second.

I like their looks and the fact that it's just plain difficult to find a slider among them. Try setting a stack of 40 pre-65 sliders next to 40 of the modern 90% proofs and see what people think...

 

I think most Silver coinage is losing numismatic value to bullion, so whatever has the lowest premium to so-called "melt" (Spot) is the best bargain.

Paying more for modern collectibles sounds nutty to me; that market's disintegrating. Some Ag coins will continue to have significant numismatic value, to be sure, but the likelihood your LCS is liquidating solid numismatic stock remains about nil. WHEN that day arrives, you can safely trade up numismatically LOL

That said, do the math. A Silver Proof Quarters (Dec. 2012) for $250 is 7.23 ozt .999 Ag @ POS 34.28 : that's a $2.00 dealer charge or 0.82% (a very very low premium, I think.)

I looked at a Kitco post from 4/2010 and see that someone else wondered/paid 10% premium for a Silver Proof Roll on eBay (plus s/h?) Another bullionist responded he regularly paid (in 1 Q 2010 POS @ 16.50 -18.60 ) a 9% - 11.5% premium to buy Silver Proof Quarters.

From 2010 -2012, it looks like premiums (and numismatic value) for Silver Proof Quarter Rolls has essentially collapsed! So ...very low premiums from trusted dealer = great deal today, IMO

Also, worn US junk silver always weighs marginally less. So what's the discount/quote on 40 old 90/10 Quarters? There's no good reason to pay more for junk Silver, obv.

 

You are not making any sense at all. Modern silver proof quarters are not initially sold by the roll. If someone did roll them up, which is stupid, they ruin the proof status of these coins and they would revert to bullion status or less.

You really don't seem to know much about coin collecting.

 

Dealers will submit 100's of sets to the TPG'ers with the proviso that anything that doesn't grade at a certain level just gets returned back to them raw. What to do with all these lose coins? Roll 'em.

Actually the premium over melt (for the OP) really ain't too bad. $241.60 melt as of Fridays close........

 

Indeed, but rolled coins have no numismatic status. They are a bullion buy to begin with. The party that I was responding to does not seem to know this.

 

APMEX lists bagged 90/10 junk, slabbed coins, and certified proof coins all as "Bullion." Truer than many here realize LOL but there's some numismatic value in certain products, yet.
http://www.apmex.com/Category/503/Silver.aspx

fatima: I'm happy to explain the difference between bullion and numismatic value to you!

'Bullion' is ingot or coin sold at the lowest price to Spot, at purity. It's value as a retail product is effectively ASK, plus a dealer's transaction cost (first premium.)
'Numismatic value' (if, when & where it exists) is whatever excess value or extra premium tacked on to the dealer's Bullion ASK, based on retail demand.

Selling TO a dealer and adjusted to purity, there's NO NUMISMATIC VALUE if your coin is worth spot or less at market. It's irrelevant you imagined otherwise, or those coins DID once-upon-a-time... except to prove my point. As the OP said, his LCS is NOW SELLING "a few rolls of 90% proof state quarters right from mint sets" - that's a bullion-rate, apparently ~3.3% over POS 33.46 You should learn how to read.

In fact, the "numismatic value" of those new proof coins has plunged from the US Mint 'collectors premium' of ~18% in 2010, to ~5% (rolled & sold, retail resale) in 2010, to about ~0% today.
http://www.cointalk.com/t189818-47/#post1565629

At retail, there should always be a dealer's bullion premium; net that. But as more & more "numismatic moderns" are marked to market - and eBay/PayPal and taxes get paid - Sellers/investors can already grasp how most Ag & Au 'coin value' has plunged towards that stark blunt reality, the bullion rate. This trend isn't reversing anytime soon, since the Greater Fool's been played.

For most coins, 2008 was the numismatic peak in adjusted-USD. Today, smart bullion buyers look to buy coins & ingot alike, for the lowest premiums, on any sharp dips (-10% to -15%, or more.) Stick with reputable LCS, I think: solid relationships have real value too!

In modern US (Ag & Au) coins, avg retail premiums have never gotten this low. I'm convinced premiums must rise on price-volatility, but that will be a function of BULLION-price not "numismatic value." As so-called "numismatic value" continues to erode with Boomer liquidation, more modern collectors will understand that most coin-valuation was grossly inflated, largely a chimera, and wishful thinking.

US Mint Sets aren't "free money" either

 

You are displaying your ignorance. Foolish people will slab bullion coins. They turn out to be bargain buys for real bullion holders. I've got some myself. It's fascinating that you don't know this.

You further make the mistake of thinking that a slab means a coin is numismatic. It has absolutely nothing to do with that. It's a measure of manufacturing quality on modern coins. But this is aside from the point

You said there was a collapse in the numismatic value for rolled silver proof coins. There is no such thing. Period. The numismatic value was destroyed when the coins were rolled in the first place. That is why they were put into rolls.

Frankly I'm surprised that you would come to a coin collecting forum to tell people there was no point in their hobby.

 

That is a decent deal at $6.25 per coin with the current POS. If they are silver ATB quarters (2010-2012) you will be purchasing them at less than mint issue price. If they are silver state quarters (1999-2009), you will be paying a premium to mint issue price. From a strict bullion play, these are a good deal especially if you think POS will increase over time. You should have no trouble selling when the time comes. TC

 

For what it is worth, proof coins in rolls (whether they are silver or clad makes no difference) do have value and/or purpose for those who want to put sets together to sell on eBay or some other venue. An example of this is the 13-coin Westward Journey sets that I put together using a proof coin from each year (2004-2006) for the three different Jefferson obverses that were used in addition to the 10 uncirculated coins for those years. I was putting together 100 of these sets, and it was cheaper for me to buy three rolls of proofs for each year.

Sure, the owner of a B&M could take those 100, 500 or 1000 coins that didn't meet his minimum grading requirements from a submission and put each one into a 2x2 and try to sell them in his store, but is it really worth the time and effort?

Chris

 

Actually, that's not always why they are put in rolls, and yes, there can still be some numismatic value when they are in rolls.

I had a bunch of 2004 silver proof sets that I bought as an investment. When I went to sell them, I studied FeeBay auctions to try and determine the best way to sell them. Individually, in lots of five, lots of ten, etc. I noticed there were people selling silver proofs in rolls and at the price they were selling, I figured I could make more by selling the silver proofs in rolls than I could make by selling the sets individually, and I'd have a whole lot less shipping to do, and I'd still have the non-silver proofs that I could sell.

So no, not all rolls are full of coins that couldn't make the grade and yes, they can still have numismatic value. Why else would they sell for more than they would in their OGP, which absolutely do have numismatic value?

Now, in the year since I sold these, I have also noticed prices dropping. Rolls of silver proofs are not selling for the same premiums as they were before. They are selling for about the same price as pre-1965 coins. I suppose some might consider that to be a "collapse in the numismatic value for rolled silver proof coins". I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it a "collapse", but the market is certainly down.

I guess by your earlier post, I'm one of those "stupid" guys that busted up some silver proof sets to roll them up. Meh, whatever. I was laughing like an idiot all the way to the bank. With any luck, the value of other people's 2004 Silver Proof Sets went up by about .0001% due to the scarcity increasing ever so slightly.

Now, can we please stop with the name calling and insults? Thanks! :thumb:

 

Huh? This sounds like the age-old question, "What came first? The chicken or the egg?"

Chris

 

You are absolutely correct, in re-reading it I should not have been so caustic in that reply. I apoligise, and I certainly meant no insult towards you for taking advantage of rolled coins. I wasn't trying to make that point.

The point I was responding to, was the notion that silver coin collectors were wasting their money because collecting silver coins was a bad investment. As proof, the party who made this claim said the numismatic value of rolled silver proof coins had collapsed. My point is this is nonsense, because there is no such thing as a numismatic market for rolled silver coins in the first place.

I don't think collecting modern silver coins is automatically a bad investment.

 

I still don't see why you say there's no numismatic value of a roll of silver proofs. If they are placed in the plastic tube carefully, they won't be ruined. It'd be no different than having the coins all in separate 2x2s.

 

OK if you believe this, then you should take heed to the party above that I was responding to. i.e.

From 2010 -2012, it looks like premiums (and numismatic value) for Silver Proof Quarter Rolls has essentially collapsed! ​

 

Blaubart-
Thank you for that clear explanation of firsthand experience selling rolled Silver proofs, 'proof-by the numbers.' (I don't know why anyone would deny this occurs; it does. EOS.) That practice makes perfect sense to me, you did exactly the right thing to realize the greatest gain in your coin transactions. My example shows likewise, and the APMEX 'Bullion' page shows what dwindling numismatic value looks like on a premium-basis. That's a helpful metric for real values I believe.

Topcatcoin and cpm9ball's points are true. And I agree (as I wrote) : very low premiums on Silver Proof Quarter Rolls from trusted dealer = great deal today!

fatima-
I don't see anyone agreeing with you here; is that because you're always so contentious and abusive? You've already been called out, stop the insults.
It's also lying to imply that I believe "collecting silver coins is a bad investment" - I don't. Stop trying to misrepresent me (and, stop stalking me) - focus on your own "stuff."

 

Juan, I already apoligised for my comments to you. Is there something else that you need from me?

 

fatima-
I'm not thin-skinned, but I sure missed your apoligisation to me. Where was it? If you'd like to edit a reply, please feel free.

It's funny, when I looked up that word ("apoligised" means nothing) online, I found this instead.

Verb 1. apologise - defend, explain, clear away, or make excuses for by reasoning; "rationalize the child's seemingly crazy behavior"; "he rationalized his lack of success"

Is that what you mean? As opposed to saying you're sorry?
Got it.

 

I didn't miss it.

 

Sounds like a good deal to me - no circulation wear and relatively low mintages.

I've contemplated buying a roll of 1992 and later silver proof Kennedys when they were on Apmex.