2012 Silver Eagle San Francisco Proof Set "PRICE WATCH"

Hmmm... That listing makes a claim the Seller cannot substantiate nor ought to be utilizing to sell the item.

"Only" and "on" in the underlined text is where they are wrong and misleading a buyer. Even if the buyer is aware and doesn't care, it doesn't help how these sets are being sold and what the effect is on pricing.

Of course it's based on estimated dates shown in people's orders placed earlier in the ordering window of opportunity, but a 'first in first out' shipping policy, if the Mint/PBGS even follows that, doesn't mean all 150,000 are leaving on the same date. Orders placed a week after the coins went on sale say the same thing as orders placed on day one. We see people often stress out over ordering early and getting their products after people who ordered later than them as reflected in order number counting. Plus the approximate figure (150k) is only thought to be where the shipping dates differ more widely as has been seen discussed in numismatic blogs and forums amongst people who have seen these shipping estimated dates published by the Mint. People have come to believe the estimates shown in order statuses means something about who gets what and when. But those dates have in the past been flexible, delivery varied by carrier type selected and delivery conditions complicated receipt of products, etc. The precise number the Seller quotes is in no way supported by Mint policy nor statements about this product and becomes a disservice when falsely claimed in a listing.

These are the small leaps that distort the limited nature of these products and are used in flipping to artificially drive up the prices. It comes from opportunist seeking more than the retail price, particularly immediately after something goes on sale from the Mint, as they monitor minute details of the order process hoping they can justify getting paid more in the aftermarket action.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

many people like to "price watch" the set for different reasons. just as many people bought the set for different reasons.

- you have ASE collectors who bought the set for there collection only.

-you have dealers who bought many sets to sell as one of there many products. (no one will get rich on selling ASEs alone)?

-and you have collectors/flippers who will flip a few sets to help finance or offset losses in there coin collecting. (a few sets won't profit much but anything helps)


I bought a few sets strictly out of BOREDOM
I watch the price strictly out of BOREDOM

live a little and have fun with it. all work and no play makes jack a dull boy.

 

I noticed that too.

 

I'm sure nearly everyone is aware that the ebay sale price is not the same as their 'take'. However, that price is what someone is willing to pay. That is what I think is important from this discussion. I find the updated sale price (regardless of ones profit) interesting to see what others are willing to pay less than a week after the end of the sale window from the mint. It will be interesting to watch and look back on months and years from now. In fact, I only bought one set that I don't ever plan to sell, but that doesn't mean that I'm not interested in their demand. While the points you bring up have merit, they are also irrelevant to some of us that are enjoying the updates of this thread, even if you find the price increase to be too low to be relevant. I'm not trying to be confrontational, just offering another perspective.

 

My point is that collectively these 'watch' list posting are only watching the price rise and that collectively that draws attention to the profitability, drives up mintage, down rarity and kills demand while expecting high prices can be achieved in aftermarket. This has a harmful effect on the hobby for collectors who do not care about flipping, profiting and so on as it makes obtaining new products harder, if not more costly.

I have lots of fun but I am not so jaded as to see the folly such fun can have on a hobby I find to be just as fun without the cheering for high prices being paid. The same members of forums bemoan the retail prices the Mint sets, complain of dealers asking too much and eBay Sellers of gouging, yet they are amused to only post higher and higher completed sales figures...

 

I totally agree with what you are saying. thank goodness we don't have a "price watch thread" for every coin minted. but since ASEs are so popular ,I figured a thread like this would be interesting.

 

Something else for a little context regarding quoting eBay prices, eBay is a place that has traditionally been where people go to sell because they can get more for something and find buyers willing to pay more as well. It doesn't matter if its coins, comic books, record albums, and so on. Using eBay listings as the sole source isn't really reflective of what something is worth. Deriving entertainment from seeing what people may be willing to over pay for something isn't particularly a part of this hobby and only serves to undermine in it time and kind.

 

I also bought a set of PF70s from mintproducts.com for $225. they already charged my card.

do you think they will honor that price? or will they try to charge me more right before they ship? The lady said I was locked in but who knows.

 

I think they will continue to honor their price commitment. They're reputable and I've dealt with them regarding silver eagle bullion and such in the past when prices for the precious metal rose after the fact. They always shipped at the agreed upon price.

 

I think they are legally obligated to honor that price since they charged your card the advertised price. Considering the cost and hassle to grade coins that looks like a good price to me.
However it's bad form to charge your card before shipping the coins.

I'd pay $225.00 for a set of the coins graded PF70s.

After giving it some thought I'm going to buy a PF70 set from them.

 

awesome! thanks.

 

Thing is Krispy none of the sources in this hobby truly can reflect what something is worth.

I know when I purchase silver it truly is worth the price of silver each day, any other premium I may obtain for the silver would be based on what the buyer thought it was worth.

What truly reflects what something is worth? NGC? PGCS? Greysheet?

If I see an item with a history of 100 sales on ebay with an average price of say $300.00 I would say that is just as valid of relative worth than any other source in the retail market.


As far as deriving entertainment from seeing what people may be willing to overpay as not being part of the hobby I agree. That being said i thought this was the"bullion investing" section of this forum, not the "bullion collecting" section. Buying on a low and selling on a high would be what investing is all about as I don't consider investing as part of the hobby.

 

They'll honor it because there would be A LOT of ****ed off people if they did a bait and switch on pricing. Think the 70s are running at $280 - 290 now.

Good luck getting it from that price. From what I recall, a lot of those dealers have already raised their prices.

 

To me, seeing what someone is willing to pay is a good indicator of which direction the price of something is heading. Yes, people tend to spend more on ebay than they would elsewhere. With that in mind, individuals have the capacity to take a qualitative approach to viewing price change. If prices increase (or decrease) over a length of time from a particular source, it is a good indicator of how the value of that item is changing.

To you, deriving entertainment from seeing how the value of something changes isn't a part of this hobby. I would argue that others may find the price change interesting considering we are in a Bullion Investing forum.

 

They are up front about it in telling you that it is what they do when you order from them. I used to pre-order ASE's weeks in advance of their release and they would immediately tag my card, but I was OK with that as long as I knew that that was what they were going to do.

 

I personally think the biggest perpetrators in this issue are the grading companies and the media over the opportunists and individual that is flipping a few sets.

I have no problem with buying graded coins, my personal attitude is over 50 years old I am not buying it if its not graded, but I simply refuse to pay for grading on modern un-circulated bullion.

1st Strike, Early release and the host of other nonsense types of ratings are far more dangerous because the collector/hobbyist is told they are different, when in fact that there is no relative difference between the 2012 ASE vs. a 2012 Early Release ASE. It is worth more because the grading companies have told us that it is and nothing more.

 

On their webpage they say that they have the best price for the PF70 sets - guaranteed. Since others had them for the same price during that time, that price should be guaranteed.

 

I think the FS/ER designation is totally meaningless, but I do see value in grading. There is a difference between a 69 and 70 in quality that can be seen with the naked eye. And there is value for some collectors to have a nice holder and a certified 69 or 70.

And I'm kinda the opposite from you in that I'll pay for the grading, but don't want to pay for an already graded coin. It took me 2-3 years to get my 2009 UHR graded (at ms70). I liked it when it was raw, I'd still like it even if it graded as a 69.

On a side note, the new thing with 5 different label types for 1 coin is totally ridiculous.

 

The horse is dead, buried, and turned to dust! :dead-horse:

Your 4628 word rant in the other thread and over 2277 word rant over the last couple of pages in this thread is impressive! At this point no one else cares about your issues with us watching prices and talking up this subject. You can probably tell I am getting pretty irritated by the attacks on Dnar and others that care to discuss this topic in a positive manner. There is little positive about your tone and BTW you have quite a few misspelled words. All I see you doing is harassing members. Do you see anyone else posting over 2000 words in a thread let alone over 4500 words??? Your only goal seems to stifle and pollute this and the other thread with your repeated remarks over-over-over again. If he or anyone else wants to post sales at every penny increment through the ups and downs he has every right to without someone harassing him along the way!!!

It's rather ironic the shoe is now on the other foot. Remember this thread and how upset you became when someone gave you a hard time about updating the numbers?Currently:

Gold: $1,366.20/oz.
Silver: $28.73/oz.
Platinum: $1735/oz.
Palladium: $752/oz.


Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t127483-60/#ixzz20AeyNB2n

 

Not to rain on your parade but silver is only $27.30/ounze.