2012 Silver Eagle San Francisco Proof Set "PRICE WATCH"

I ordered 2 sets a while back but have yet to see a charge hit my account, never ordered from the Mint before, is this normal?

 

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They don't charge you until the items are ready to ship.

 

Thanks, wanted to make sure it wasn't something I did wrong

 

ok here are some ebay auctions of interest http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...7cRiz9o%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_720wt_1163 $203

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...cRiz9o%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_4327wt_1396 $200

 

I'm not interested in those prices thus far. Please report back when the price is double retail.

 

keep on rolling. have fun. no matter what. price will go up.

 

up to $215 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...7cRiz9o%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_500wt_1413

 

Is that double retail? I think not. Is that a completed sale? No. In fact your link shows the item was relisted and they are urging $229 now. Doesn't seem they even know how to create a listing even if they are hopeful in asking this much in a BIN listing.

 

geesh Krispy once again over the top. You have to scroll down to see the sale. they sold 8 at $215 on a pre-sale basis. as for "doubling retail" I am not sure what you mean- that is your hang up not mine- I am simply reporting a "price watch" price

 

Doubling retail would be worth the effort of resale. $215 is not one's take until fees are subtracted, making this level hardly worth the effort, if these 8 sales are even authentic in the end.

 

At $215 you would net $195 before shipping. If you're selling them singly, shipping will run around $10. That leaves you with $185, which comes out to a 23% profit margin. Presale prices tend to be low, but even if they weren't, I could live with a 23% profit.

It's better than the stock market performance this year, better than the performance of the precious metals, ****, better than most investment performace so far this year, and the guy hasn't even paid or gotten them in yet. Why would 100% profit be the bar for essentially receiving a package and dropping another one off at the post office?

I'd take performance like that any day of the week. As far as making a quick buck goes, he's doing a great job. Depending on how many sets he bought, he'll probably even end up with a few free sets to keep in the end.

 

I am quite surprised that they are already selling for $215. Why didn't they buy them on Thursday for $150?

 

^

There really isn't too much that amazes me on ebay anymore. Even when you could still buy it from the mint, there were already people buying presales for over the mint prices.

I think some people like to shop exclusively on ebay, and don't really pay attention to issue prices or availability elsewhere.

Also, another thing to consider is that if you want the item early (to submit for ER or just to have early), you pretty much needed to order on the first couple days. If you miss that window, you may be stuck with getting your coins near the end of october versus the end of july. 3 months is a while. So they buy from someone who ordered on day 1.

 

I'm not interested in a quick buck, playing fellow collectors to obtain it in the manner you suggest, nor did I say 100% was "the bar". I said earlier for Danr to report back when the price had doubled, but he came back sooner with something not all that remarkable from his slightly earlier price watch post that I had commented on.

While your suggestion of 23% may sound like a lot to folks flipping a few collectibles, it's peanuts compared to actual investing in the markets you drew that comparison to. "Investing" in coins is something that has surely burned any number of people over the years such that most collectors recite it like a mantra, not to do it. Furthermore, unlike the stock market, flipping of modern collectible coinage doesn't have the component of time that one can operate in with the stock market. These coins are a flash in the pan and in a few weeks, the opportunities pay out far less than does disciplined investing.

That $35 dollars over retail ($149.95 to approx $185 figure you gave us), isn't much when you factor in the things you left out of your equation, mainly one's time, what it's worth and the expense you can tally after considering time spent creating the listing, tending to seller:buyer communications, time spent packaging the items once they arrive, and delivering it to the post office (often incurring fuel expense to get to a PO).

As I've said before, after all the 'effort' is spent, the return isn't that great, which is why I point out the cheerleaders of these things who are so eager to consider a few extra bucks over retail is a killing, let alone one that is outperforming world markets that are infinitely more capable of ROI, offering diversity and providing long term options for building wealth. These coins are basically feeding you for a day, and chasing a quick buck isn't learning how to fish, as the proverb recommends one do.

Furthermore, since 'the guy hasn't paid or gotten them in yet', having choosen to deal through eBay, he still stands to loose a customer who may reneg on the deal, no matter the obligation or moneies paid in advance, as flightly buyers are want to do on eBay. This may and does happen in the time before Sellers can deliver the item. Some buyers come to realise they made a bad decisino buying at these early levels as some coins fall off quickly in coming weeks. Some buyers may find another auction priced less and pull out of one completed transaction to save a few bucks on another. Or for any other reason Buyers decide they are going to change their minds and leave the Seller hanging. It's far from a quick buck, especially when no one has the product in-hand yet.

Similarly, the Seller is waiting to get the products that are on back order from the Mint, a supposedly understood componet of the deal they make with a Buyer on eBay. But the Seller is still waiting with money tied up in the product from the Mint, holding the Buyers funds and hoping the Mint/PBGS/and FedEx/USPS/UPS will delive problem free coins unscathed during shipping. Then the original buyer cum eBay Seller, must turn the parcel around to the eBay Buyer, whom they can only hope and pray will be satisfied and not pull any antics, and can only hope and pray the carrier will get the parcel to the Buyer safely.

While many of these details of what could go wrong are remote, they are plausible and do occurr. Weigh that against the $35 or 23% profit some are eager to swallow up and it really doesn't amount to as much as you think you're pulling in... lastly, don't forget you are required to report sales made on eBay to the taxman.

I'm not apologethic to those who feel I'm too critical about this, and those who think that 'my bar' is too high or my level of perceived risk too strict, because it's far more common that we hear about problems like these occuring than I am willing to applaud and suggest others medel with stick their nects out because some pom pom waving collectors reached for the brass ring in a short window of 'opportunity' and paint themselves champions of the markets. If it was that profitable, individuals wouldn't stand a chance. We already see their hype tweaked by certain coin companies who do the same thing. When companies seize the opportunity and exploit the profit on mass volume these threads light up with crying collectors who got beat out, just as happened with the buy out offers and companies that exploited the house hold ordering limits on the A25 set.

So why would 100% profit be better you ask, because it would be 72% higher than the 23% you were willing to accept and had sold out for netting a far smaller profit than you actually figured it to be, devoid of time, risk, income reporting and the limited amount of time you gave your 'investment' to materialize a profit, IF the after-market even ever decides to agree there is such value (premiums) to be maintained for this product. If it turns out like a 2009 UHR, then you sold out this new product too short for 24% and your boasting of beating the market was a bunch of hooey when that happens.

All I am doing is offering a reasoned balance and caution to the cheerleading of price watchers. Many can't handle the criticism and take such replies personally, but it's not meant that way.

 

geesh Krispy- we do not all live to follow your orders. This is the price watch thread- it exists for the purpose of posting prices from auctions and other sources not for spouting off.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...E7cRiz9o%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_872wt_905 up to $229 sold on a pre-sale basis. 4 sold

 

Geesh Danr... You get so worked up in these new coin releases that you forget that you suggested a price was of 'interest' several posts earlier which I chimed in to discuss wasn't all that interesting. I even urged you on with a "please", to alert me when the price doubled retail, that being about $300. Mine wasn't an order but rather my own comment about where I'd find flipping more worth the effort for the return on investment, as I detailed for another member a couple of posts above.

I know you'd love to prevent me from raining on your parade(s) and to go on in your singular vision of only focusing on a price watch devoted to ever bigger numbers, never citing those which sell on the low end too as a thorough investigation of prices watching might do. I know you are upset because I caution the existence of these threads suggesting they do you a disservice at earning that profit by making everyone aware of the potential success to be had flipping, price gouging, and getting others to overspend. What you identify as spouting off is only another members shared perspective on the topic that differs from your own, and which you only seem to grow more quite defensive about. I don't anticipate you would stop watching prices but I would expect you to understand how your very actions contribute to limiting any such profit you seek and warranting the Mint to continue raising the retail price knowing that people are ever willing to pay more and more beyond the intrinsic value for these things.

 

Krispy- THIS IS THE PRICE WATCH THREAD, I am helping out by posting prices. I am not trying to make any point- I am just participating appropriately. If you want to post other prices do it, but these mini-essays really do not belong in a price watch thread.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=370628601894&nma=true&rt=nc&si=otsMExC1n9V3Tz7PdCr8jbEry9s%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_720wt_1165

this set sold for $222.22.

 

I am aware of which thread this is, thank you very much. How are you helping when you say you have no point to make? Sure my comments belong here. I've watched the price as well and I'm commenting about what I see is a negative of 'watching the price, that is those posting prices about a given product, namely greater and greater prices achieved, without comment on lower prices as well. This action and focus has an unintended effect. It attracts the attention of others who will come to expect more than retail every time some new coins rolls out. It distorts demand and values for the hobbyist and ends up making everyone pay more. The Mint knows it goes on and they can keep justifying the retail price new products sell for. Suggesting the benefits of higher and higher prices realized in aftermarket auctions in the flip robs you each time. The profit you'd like to think you're making or would be making if you had the same opportunities dwindles each time these posts inspire more people to buy products anticipating this financial reward and so on as I stated. I'm sorry if you find my posts length tedious but there is more to this than posting a link and a line that only points to the rising prices.