gold, silver, the ratio, platinum european fears, and central banks

For bullion investors who watch all ofthese and current events. the 1530-1550 area had become a friendly place to buy gold. silver is laggin as it usually does, but platinum has now ounced over 100 dollars from its low two weeks ago. Also the gold silver ratio keeps testing the 57:1 ratio. People I talk with believe that after Europe throws a few trillion dollars at the markets, to temporarily save the banking system, PM's should fly. Obviusoulsly funds will pour into Gold, but the Gsr should start moving down toward the 47:1.....50:1 area assuming gold rallies to highs 1600's which has been the near term range top. Silver is still very near it low range of 27.00 to 37.00. If you are new to silver investing buying 80% canadian silver or 80% canadian proof sets are good as they are much more rare than there american counterparts, and as the RCM gains more notoriety, Canadian silver should trend to a preium to spot just liek American silver. After all the Canadian dollar has now birtually been on par or better than the US dollar for 5 plus years. Just my thoughts, but with 1630 gold, buying silver at 28.50 or platinum at 1480 seem like very friendly trades/investments. Just as the US had a major scare in 2007-2009, Europe is going through the same crisis, except the here in the states, the problem was with companies, ther it is countries. Greece is the least of the problems. Italy has the thrid largest bond market in the World. When the funds wake up and get out of there fiat paper currecny/bonds notes, the natural investment is the precious metals. For us coin collectors, we all know gold and silver were the only money in pretty much every country for all of eterninty less the last 50 years or so. As for the argument precious metals dont pay interest...........in 2000 the SP 500 was in about the same place it is now gold was around 350 and silver 4.00 so call ti waht you want i call it making money.............just some random thoughts............stay strong...........stay long silver.................it is one of the only global currencies with no central banker..................it cannot be created out of thin air, on the contrary, more gets consumed each day than produced..........................sincerely.............qsilver007

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Time to switch to decaf. :smile

 

When you try to sell 80% they give you the whole "it cost more to refine so we can't pay as close to spot as 90% or fine silver"

 

canadian silver

I am more knowledgeable about the outright metals than coins, you probably figured but im at Street guy. Also have asian heritage so gold and silver have been involved in my life pretty much since birth. In the past five years there has been a huge movement of other funds and traders getting involved in the PM's. I am far from an expert in coin, but now that Canadian money has been on par with the dollar for years, and the fact that the RCM makes a lot of good roducts in limted quantity not like silver eagles or that stuff. Most of the canadian proof sets fromthe sixties have mintage in the 100,000 of thousands vs say a 1964 kenedy in the us that has a quarter billion, simple math over time from the coin world will show that these candian proofsets are extremely undervalued. yes for disclosure my personal holding of them in a large number. Ive never gone to try to melt down so I appreciate your info on that. Just seems to me you have a lot of suckers in the trading world and coin world now who will buy tops in the markets and pay huger premiums for US coins which i will say are not too rare. Silver underlying price is about 35% too low if you are a trader, and as a collector ive found value in these 1960-1967 candian proof sets as you get 1.1 ounces of silver usually pay 80-90% of melt from proof silver in ogp. We all know it would be pretty difficult to buy 960 us proof sets at 14 or 15 dollars. thats all I was saying.

 

I don't think there's as much demand for Canadian proof sets.

The gold to silver ratio is heading higher.

 

like i said im astreet guy so i have to make these metals decisons everyday, but in my humble opinion if you look at a chart 57:1 has been very good point to enter long silver short gold, i am not really against gold, i am more of the beleief that silver and platinum are greatly undervalued. for the35 years preceding the sp downgadeof the us last summer platinum genrally trade 30% percent premium to gold.. you will hear all kind of story supply demand, cnina slowing, blah blah blah, the only thing that has changed is more peoplE are opening u to gold being money and not everyone thinks platinum and silver are. the coin collectors of the world know silver is $ as most coins pre 1960-1970 were silver. The US fixed Gold Silver at 35:1 from 1932-1968. so its only since demonetezation of the dollar from PM;s that Silver has fallen compared to Gold. Unfortunately the PM makrets are run by a bunch of traders many of whom simply use algos, most of them sold ther gold at 1530 3 weeks ago and got short, they bought oil at 115 adn are getting short at 83. everyone has there own opinion which is great otherwise i would have no job, but from a professional, personal and technical perpective silver is too low. once silver broke 20 back in 2010 herds of people realized it had minetary value, and fundamentally the investment and fabrication demand for silver will result in a shortage agian this year and platinum production is expected to be down 22% year over year as Implats Rustenburg mine is still experiencing problems. Europe will end up putting ten trillion euro in there system by the time its all said and done beacuse the world does not want another 2008 or worse, as they start announcing this the ruo will continue to go down adn metals will go uo as even the funds will have little choine to get on board. Also in silver in the futures community there is the lowest long position since 2003-2004, that was pretty much near the low in silver. just my thoughts................sincerely,,,,,,,,,,,qsilver007

 

Some of this is possible for gold, but I do not think that silver will play a large role in the actions of Greek, Spain, or even Egypt. The thought that precious metals will be the safe harbor bet hasn't worked well since 2008-10. True some blips occur, but the USD and the Swiss France continues to be the move for the big money. If the Euro goes down, the price of gold will probably do so also (as it is worldwide denominated in the USD or its current exchange), as the USD will rise against the currency basket. I am not saying the USD or Swiss Franc is totally safe as an investment, but at this time, I believe it is better than PM. People who really NEED silver for their manufacturing or such have hedges in for 9mo. to year or more, and it hasn't raised the price of silver much. If the total demand for silver was as strong as some imply, it would be climbing, and it isn't. If you look at charts of Si, GC, Euro/USD, over the past month or more, Gold, Silver, Euro all go the same direction and at similar ratio, up or down. If the USD goes up, all 3 go down similarly. No other currency causes this type of effect that I am aware of.

If one wants to call for silver or gold personal accumulation because they like sparkly things, that is fine, but to indicate it is a sure gainer has a long way to go. IMO.

 

I say this because in all likelihood the culprit is probably a handheld device and if that's not the case, well then there's just no good excuse... So, just because one utilizes a hand held device to interact with a forum doesn't mean they may fore go typing etiquette. Even street guys know to use the return key, capital letters and to employ the benefits of auto-spell or spell check.

Burying us with an avalanche of words is really only burying the message you wish to be expressing to your intended audience.

It sounds like you have something to say, but it takes too much effort as a reader to untangle that mess spewed out above.

 

Thank you!

 

Maybee hiss fist langaga isnot enGlish ore mAYbE hiss dylEXic, plAying speling police is soo 2001 know 1 is fourcing U 2 reaad hiss thread

hAVE A greaT day!

 

You've simply missed the point of my earlier post. Mine was meant less an admonishment of the OP's writing ability and more an appeal for them to actually have their message read rather than passed over for the near indecipherable blob of text it currently presents itself to be. A great day I have had.

 

Point well taken re spell check, grammar, etc, updated thoughts on Bullion investing

To start, I will use spell check and add punctuation. First, all I was trying to do was add some real life color to this blog with fact and trends that I have seen in the trading world.  I realize that coin collecting is simply a hobby for me as it is for many of you. I am guessing that many of us have and do own GC(Gold) and SI(Silver) coins, so we are in the minority, and are a great deal more informed than the average public/investor. As I stated working on the Street, and having Asian heritage, PM's have been a part of my life and culture since I can remember. So getting back to real life, investing, making money. The two year moving average for the Gold/Silver ratio is 50:1. During the more dull years, 2004-2007 the average was 57:1. We currently stand in that vicintity 57:1. This was Pre worldwide ZIRP rates and the bailouts and financial crash of 2008, so this data pre 2008 is skewed to a different reality. Since the Silver "bottom" of 8.88 in late 2008 the Silver Gold ratio appreciated rather nicely until the recent peak of Silver flat price last May when the GSR reached the 31 area. It proceeded to lose more and more purchasing power vs Gold especially since the SP downgrade of the US last summer. That was when gold became the darling of Wall St, and made parabolic moves vs Silver and Platinum. My statement was that Silver always has been and will contnue to be money. All currencies for most major countries were backed by gold and circulated in Silver from ancient times to about the 1960-1970's. The US fixed the GSR at 35:1 for many many years until Bretton Woods was cancelled by the president back in the late 1960's. Gold and Silver are still the only global currencies with no central banker. The current/fiat money system is based on the brainwashing of the general public to believe Gold and Silver are bubbles, ancient relics that serve no place in the money system. Is that why China, Turkey, India, Russia and many more I may have missed are increasing there Gold reserves at astounding rate over the past few years? For the fiat system to work the western countries, ie, US, UK ,EU must convince as many people as possible that Gold and Silver are not money  As a trader I am paid daily to make decsions on qualitative ideas, patterns and trends I see in the PM's.  I have been doing it for a long time, so I guess I have done a lot more right than wrong. My statement was that since 2008 the birth of algo/quant funds who know nothing about the PM's have grown, that is why we see Silver and Gold move of 2-5% almost on a daily basis. Each day they sell the lows and buy the highs, and more and more are exiting the PM space. Soon more of the fundamentals will return, and the masses will realize that Dollars, Euro, Yen, and other major fiat currencies are being devalued eaach day, govt bonds are not a safe haven as they continue to build debt and spend more than they taake in, not to mention there is very limited upside in buying bonds or notes when they yield less than 1 or 2% as many major countires paper now yield those ZIRP rates and that is for 10 year paper, lets not even talk about short dated 90 day and 1 year stuff. So I was just pointing out that Silver and Platinum are at extreme lows vs Gold right now. I would rather take my chances being long Silver at 28.50 than Apple stock at 575.00 or Priceline at 670.00. But, thats just my opinion. One last thing, regarding the EURO, any statement about the the metals having a correlation to the US DOLLAR or EURO is garbage. The financial media, IE Bubblevision, I won't name names, I am sure all of you watch and read various financial media, want you to believe that the dollar is up so gold is down or vice versa. They need to talk about something, so they always fall back on the dollar vs the euro vs the PM's. When referencing the DOLLAR, they refer to the ICE dollar index which is composed of 58% euro, 14% yen, 12% pound (uk), 9% cad $, 4% swedish krona, and 4% swissie. Now that Swissie is pegged to the Euro, those two make up more than 60%. (not really a good reference point in my opinion.) Facts you may not know: You never hear much reference about the Indian rupee, which was making historic lows for almost two weeks in a row in late may. The Euro has traded 1.29 vs the dollar at least one time for each of the past 10 years. In 2003 when the Euro first traded 1.29, Gold was 350.00, and Silver was about 5.00. So I think we can throw the Euro being up or down out the window in regards to PM prices. Did the recent Greek panic and flight from Spanish bonds have any effect on the PM move down in late May, absolutely. It is times of panic that the best trades, buying opportunities exist. Buying 1540 gold and 27.25 silver was so easy, I wish panics like that happened all the time. Conclusion: Not use my mobile device to type on CT anymore. Run spell check. I will continue to give you guys some investing nifo from a WS perspective, if you like. I will contnue to believe Silver prices are extremely low so long as the GSR in under 45:1. I hope this thread clears up what I said before and is more reader friendly. I don't know any of you, nor do you know me, but we all must believe in Gold and Silver, as Im guessing that is what most of our coins are composed of. Have a nice Father's Day to all you dad's out there, I just became one so I am going to try and enjoy the rest of the day................Sincerely................Qsilver007

 

krispy i dont get the photo or quote

I dont understand the photo or quote like i said going out for fathers day will check this later View attachment 183881

 

My point exactly! I didn't even read your prior post because of its obtuse presentation to we, the readers. That's why I earlier implored your use of line breaks and an amicable format on the forum. Do have a nice father's day.

Urban Dictionary: WINNING

 

Make the paragraph your friend, my friend.

 

^Indeed. I still don't know what this topic is about because it hurts my eyes too much to read the OP's posts.

 

The one aspect I will comment on right now OP is your thought about silver, "more is consumed every day than mined". Think about it, some is "consumed" in tea sets, coins, etc. Later on this magically transforms to scrap, which is melted down for new "production". Was this really "consumed" at all? My point was "consumption" figures for silver are too high as stated, and much of this can be and will be melted down and recycled in the future.

I do not see a major physical shortage looming, unless some new application is invented.

 

To start, I will use spell check and add punctuation. First, all I was trying to do was add some real life color to this blog with fact and trends that I have seen in the trading world.

I realize that coin collecting is simply a hobby for me as it is for many of you. I am guessing that many of us have and do own GC(Gold) and SI(Silver) coins, so we are in the minority, and are a great deal more informed than the average public/investor.

As I stated working on the Street, and having Asian heritage, PM's have been a part of my life and culture since I can remember. So getting back to real life, investing, making money. The two year moving average for the Gold/Silver ratio is 50:1. During the more dull years, 2004-2007 the average was 57:1. We currently stand in that vicintity 57:1.

This was Pre worldwide ZIRP rates and the bailouts and financial crash of 2008, so this data pre 2008 is skewed to a different reality. Since the Silver "bottom" of 8.88 in late 2008 the Silver Gold ratio appreciated rather nicely until the recent peak of Silver flat price last May when the GSR reached the 31 area. It proceeded to lose more and more purchasing power vs Gold especially since the SP downgrade of the US last summer. That was when gold became the darling of Wall St, and made parabolic moves vs Silver and Platinum.

My statement was that Silver always has been and will contnue to be money. All currencies for most major countries were backed by gold and circulated in Silver from ancient times to about the 1960-1970's. The US fixed the GSR at 35:1 for many many years until Bretton Woods was cancelled by the president back in the late 1960's. Gold and Silver are still the only global currencies with no central banker.

The current/fiat money system is based on the brainwashing of the general public to believe Gold and Silver are bubbles, ancient relics that serve no place in the money system. Is that why China, Turkey, India, Russia and many more I may have missed are increasing there Gold reserves at astounding rate over the past few years? For the fiat system to work the western countries, ie, US, UK ,EU must convince as many people as possible that Gold and Silver are not money
As a traderr I am paid daily to make decsions on qualitative ideas, patterns and trends I see in the PM's I have been doing it for a long time, so I guess I have done a lot more right than wrong. My statement was that since 2008 the birth of algo/quant funds who know nothing about the PM's have grown, that is why we see Silver and Gold move of 2-5% almost on a daily basis. Each day they sell the lows and buy the highs, and more and more are exiting the PM space. Soon more of the fundamentals will return, and the masses will realize that Dollars, Euro, Yen, and other major fiat currencies are being devalued eaach day, govt bonds are not a safe haven as they continue to build debt and spend more than they taake in, not to mention there is very limited upside in buying bonds or notes when they yield less than 1 or 2% as many major countires paper now yield those ZIRP rates and that is for 10 year paper, lets not even talk about short dated 90 day and 1 year stuff.

By the way the swissie is pegged to the euro so last tear some sukceres got caught buying the swissie up at 1.40, thatcrashed when they pegged it the euro, money will not be flowing back into swissie until the ruo peg is dropped

So I was just pointing out that Silver and Platinum are at extreme lows vs Gold right now. I would rather take my chances being long Silver at 28.50 than Apple stock at 575.00 or Priceline at 670.00. But, thats just my opinion.

One last thing, regarding the EURO, any statement about the the metals having a correlation to the US DOLLAR or EURO is garbage. The financial media, IE Bubblevision, I won't name names, I am sure all of you watch and read various financial media, want you to believe that the dollar is up so gold is down or vice versa. They need to talk about something, so they always fall back on the dollar vs the euro vs the PM's. When referencing the DOLLAR, they refer to the ICE dollar index which is composed of 58% euro, 14% yen, 12% pound (uk), 9% cad $, 4% swedish krona, and 4% swissie. Now that Swissie is pegged to the Euro, those two make up more than 60%. (not really a good reference point in my opinion.)

Facts you may not know: You never hear much reference about the Indian rupee, which was making historic lows for almost two weeks in a row in late may. The Euro has traded 1.29 vs the dollar at least one time for each of the past 10 years. In 2003 when the Euro first traded 1.29, Gold was 350.00, and Silver was about 5.00.

So I think we can throw the Euro being up or down out the window in regards to PM prices. Did the recent Greek panic and flight from Spanish bonds have any effect on the PM move down in late May, absolutely. It is times of panic that the best trades, buying opportunities exist. Buying 1540 gold and 27.25 silver was so easy, I wish panics like that happened all the time.

Conclusion: Not use my mobile device to type on CT anymore. Run spell check. I will continue to give you guys some investing nifo from a WS perspective, if you like. I will contnue to believe Silver prices are extremely low so long as the GSR in under 45:1. Once it gets back to ir original gold peg of 12:1 i think that will be near the hgih.

I hope this thread clears up what I said before and is more reader friendly. I don't know any of you, nor do you know me, but we all must believe in Gold and Silver, as Im guessing that is what most of our coins are composed of. Have a nice Father's Day to all you dad's out there, I just became one so I am going to try and enjoy the rest of the day................Sincerely................Qsilve r007

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t208135/#ixzz1y44nxP6A

 

qsilver,

I think it would be GREAT if you would bring WS's perspective to the bullion forum.

However, you aren't doing that at all. Your last post was something anyone could have read on the pro-silver promotional sites. You're talking about ratios and fiat and political stuff.

It would be extremely useful if you would get away from that and share your WS-specific perspectives. What is the attitude among traders towards silver and gold and platinum. Why are they going down, or up? What are you seeing that is interesting that us regular joes aren't seeing or hearing?

If you're going to ramble on about fiat and that other stuff, this thread will quickly degenerate.