why is gold and silver going down right now?

And that is why they can not collect INCOME taxes if you have a gold standard.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen you post. Your suggesting that if you conduct fraud with gold, that you are protected? as opposed to say if you are fraudulent with cash?

Ruben

 

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<--opinion

 

I've always used cash as my "hedge" against risk. I'll either hold something that I have determined will go up [not always correctly, of course] or go to cash. And to anticipate comments from TEOTWAWKI crowd, cash is not going to become worthless overnight and if I thought it was a risk I'd move into something else.

 

I think your timing is off. I would credit a lot of the runup in the S&P in the 80's to 401k's, but not necessarily the tech boom. Good point about day traders, though. All of the sudden you had tens of thousands of people who read a few blogs on the internet and suddenly thought they knew something.

Always dangerous.

 

Yep. Got some of that, too . . . a little gold, a stack of cash, some intermediate-term US government securities (hey, if they're good enough for the Fed to invest it, they're good enough for me), and some equity exposure just to keep things interesting.

 

There is nothing wrong with holding cash as a hedge. I recommend that people do so. One of the best ways to do it these days is to make sure you max out your allowed I series savings bond each year. Currently these bonds are paying more than 3%, there is no risk, and while the term is 5 years, you only lose 3 months interest if you redeem it early. This is hugely better than any rate the banks are paying. The rate is reset every 6 months and equals the CPI + a base rate.

There is a limit of $5K/year per SS# however for those of you who have not done your taxes yet, you can fill out IRS form 8888 and have your refund refunded as paper I-bonds. This would be in addition to the $5k limit.

Curiously, these bonds are an obligation of the US Treasury and not that of the Federal Reserve system of banks. It's one of the few "on the grid" ways of getting your funds out of the hands of the banksters. (at least until redemption)

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to this site, the purchase limit for I-series bonds is $10K per year per SS#:

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/articles/res_invest_articles_purchaselimits_0406.htm

 

^You are correct. They must have raised it in January when they eliminated direct purchases of the paper bond. Technically if you take the tax refund approach, you can buy up to $15,000/year. (assuming you have $5K in a tax refund). Prior to Jan 2011, it was $5K electronic & $5K paper.

I also forgot to mention that interest earned on these bonds are exempt from any state income tax. It's an added bonus if you live in a state with such taxes.

 

It's not that they can't collect income taxes, it's that people will fly under the radar to avoid it, but as you've said since there is little difference between being fraudulent with cash or gold then it also makes little difference in this regard whether there is a gold standard. They can still collect income taxes to the same degree with or without a gold standard, which is to the extent people are legit.

 

Not according to Fatima

 

I think it depends on using gold as currency vs. using a gold backed paper currency that will still function in the credit world, or maybe even gold laced paper currency?

Oh and back on the topic, why are gold and silver going up right now? The answer is the same, volatility

 

Oh goodness, haha. Are you still posting about me? I've got you on ignore, the only one on the forum, so I was unaware you were still fixated on me. Have at it if this is what floats your boat.

 

But.....you have never said you were wrong when you stated a gold standard would prevent an income tax. If you say here you were wrong, then he would not have reason to post about your stated position that a gold standard would prevent application of an income tax.

Very simple, admit you are wrong.

 

Yeah - I keep posting because you twist people's words and refuse to accept evidence. And then you attach them.

Ruben

 

No I wasn't wrong. I've concluded the party I ignored, is nothing but a forum troll so I withdrew from that conversation. Sadly, I guess every forum has one. The nonsense isn't worth my time. However if you take counsel in his demonstrations and conclusions, then there isn't anything I can say, or rather wish to say, to change your mind. If you have done such a thing, it's obvious to me you are not interested in a real dialog on the subject.

If instead, you wish to engage me directly on the subject then I will be glad to address it. I don't remember the context of that topic but if the question is "Is an effective income tax possible under a gold standard?", then the answer is no. In order for a tax to be effective, the government has to have an enforcement mechanism. Of course if we are back on gold & silver, then it's easy enough for people to remove themselves from the system. When the income tax was imposed after ratification of the 16th amendment, less than 1% paid it and those individuals were high income and thus in the system. It wasn't until after fiat was forced on the people, which pushes them into the banking system, that the government could then expand it to cover more and more of the population. This would not have been possible if we were still on asset based currency.

Now if you are going to beat me up for leaving out the word "effective" then so be it. I've gotten used to this kind of CS argument on this forum so it's really up to you where you want to go with it.

 

Nice try/ What you proved is that when faced with overwhelming evidence against you, instead of reevaluating your absurd position, that you will stick your head in the sand like an Ostrich, and just continue lieing to people about what they say, or making things up.

Ruben

 

I am not beating you up over anything. So you say information reporting to prove people are receiving income will stop because we have a gold standard? You are saying audits are impossible because we are on a gold standard?

Or are you saying, "if we go back and the only currency is gold coins" we cannot have an effective income tax? Again, why would information reporting requirements stop because of even that severe event?

If you truly believe your statement that a gold standard can somehow prevent an effective income tax system, (I guess if you pay employees in gold then magically it will not be reported to the IRS), I would love to here you dig a deeper hole for yourself.

 

No we challenge you because your lieing and your wrong; just like you lied that you read that text on Money implementation and design; just like you lied that the author was "physics teacher"; just like you lied about my statement on how the government can increase the dollars value; ...and on and on and on.

Of everything you write, about 1/3rd is lies, 1/3rd is emotionalism and misinformation, and the rest irrelevant facts designed to tick people off.

AND NEVER do you discuss coins.

Ruben

 

The fact is that even on the gold standard, which is impossible in a modern economy worth about 100,000,000 times the amount of gold in the world, that the US government would STILL only accept for payment of taxes and fees US Currency, and not gold nuggets in your back yard, and it would still only pay in US currency.

Ruben

 

Yes to all your questions. Lets keep in mind that a return to a gold standard isn't going to be a kid's tea party. It will be gut wrenching, disruptive, and it will completely change the way finances are handled in this country. You will see the complete elimination of huge amounts of government spending and elimination of the vast agencies that surround it. What people are used to now, won't exist then including all the rules and regulations that are in place.

If you give people a way to avoid paying a tax, and gold & silver currency absolutely does this, then it's simple human nature the vast majority of people will do so. I'm surprised you don't understand this.