Time To Euthanize ATB?

Sales of the ATB pucks have pretty much fallen off of a cliff as of late. As we know, there are a number of reasons to dislike the program.

1. The 2010 bullion release fiasco.

2. The ridiculous "Quarter Dollar" denomination for a 5-ounce silver coin (it seems somebody really had their head up their donkey there.)

3. It is not respresentative of America the Beautiful, but a politically-correct America The Beautiful as it was mandated each state had to be represented. In effect, it is a state quarter program redux and does not represent the 50 most beautiful public places in America. If it did, Crater Lake and the Grand Tetons would definitely have been represented.

4. The quarters are difficult to find in circulation and therefore it is difficult to generate cross-over sales from the quarter to the pucks if people don't even get to see the quarters.

5. To collect both versions of each puck demands an investment of at least $2,000.00 per year.



What do you think? Should the program be put out of its misery or should it be allowed to continue with its current poor quality of life?

 

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I like the ATB quarters except that on some I'm seeing the obverse is not as 'sharp' as some others and it's difficult to find nice unc examples that look great on that side of the coin.

 

yeah they can get rid of it !!!

 

The OP presents a very weak argument that is incredibly shortsighted and ill considered for terminating the ATB program. It's an argument that's equally confused about a program with several years left to run and too little of a performance record yet to even evaluate whether the Mint should terminate a program that has already secured the coin legislation to fulfill representation of all the parks selected to be in the program.

As collectors, customers of the ATB products should be pleased to have the opportunity to buy either bullion or numismatic versions of the 5 oz. coins currently showing slower sales. With less attention to the program, there is a potential for lower mintage coins, opening the possibility for key and semi key dates, which sets the stage for potential increased numismatic/collector value later. There is also the other product line up available from the Mint in ATB quarters, rolls, bags, silver proof sets, etc. that meets the demands and budgets of collectors. These products have sustained sales, and there have been no issues with their release.

The OPs #1: While the 2010 bullion 5 oz. ATB coins release appeared flawed, demand for the coins was enormous and sales were swift. There have not been problems with the 2011 5 oz. ATB coins, so it was an isolated problem. The 2010 bullion ATB release was flawed due to the APs who were unprepared for direct sales to the collecting public. Once the APs recognized the demand, they also attempted to sell the products for more than they were allowed and, in some instances apparently, sold selectively to their existing customer base. The APs were unprepared for the Mint's sales intervention and unprepared for the deluge of collector-customer interest that this new coin release caused. The APs have since figured out their sales process for selling these coins and it remains up to the customers now if they want to buy these coins in this fashion from APs according to their terms. This 'fiasco' only pertained to sales of the bullion version and was unrelated to the collector products directly sold to collectors from the Mint.

The OPs #2 fails to make any point to support terminating the ATB program. If it were so strong of a reason to terminate the new coin program, then you should also support eliminating all denominated bullion products. Why? Because the intrinsic value does not match that of the denomination given on the coin. A 5 oz. piece of silver with 0.25¢ denomination is no different than an ASE with $1 or a 1 oz. AGE with $50, amongst others. Denominated bullion sells to collectors and investors, but without it, it's a 'medal' and sales crash (re: the Mint's Gold Arts medals and the recent sluggish 9/11 sales.) The low denomination is also in place to prevent people from spending these as currency. Simply, no one is going to try to spend 5 oz. of silver for 0.25¢ and for the slimmest percentage of those who would, it wouldn't be enough to terminate the program, only enough to question the person trying to sell/spend the item for that amount.

The OPs #3 is entirely subjective and cannot be argued to terminate the program.

The OPs #4 is quite confused. Collectors don't need circulating versions of coins to tell them about other, similar collectible products, from the Mint. Collectors know of the range of products from the online catalog (web site) and the U.S. Mint's direct mail catalog. Bullion investors enjoy that the Mint offers a lower premium product that's in an easier format (shape) for buying/storing larger quantities of silver. The 5 oz. size is more convenient to store 5 ounces of silver than individual 1 oz. bullion. For the non-collecting public to discover Parks quarters in circulation and seek other products they have no interest in or little idea may exist, it's going to take more than these coins to point them towards and convince them to buy 5 oz. pieces of silver with the same designs. The fact that you cannot find as many ATB coins in circulation as you would like doesn't mean they don't exist. Rather it means the coins are minted and sitting in supply rooms at the Fed waiting to ship them to banks. Those that have been sent out to banks and made it into circulation are spread thin right now, and/or they ARE effectively being collected (removed from circulation) indicating a healthier collector market of circulating ATB coins that the OP is able to recognize.

The OPs #5 is telling about personal collecting budgets and little else. People who were able to afford and managed to navigate the AP mess to purchase the 2010 bullion ATB coins were required to buy all 5 designs at once. That was generally around $1100-ish per 5-coin set. Many (they sold out) not only bought them in 5-coin sets, buy also bought them from each AIP of which some 8 or 9 were selling them. Clearly they could afford the cost of buying one coin each of the bullion and one coin each of the numismatic ATB coins if they so desired, and many surpassed the OPs $2000 figure in the first few months of the bullion coins release.

Yes, the ATB program should be a serious financial decision a collector should make, but that is true of anything you buy. Comparatively, the 1 oz. Proof AGE costs as much as obtaining all the bullion and numismatic ATB 5 oz. coins together. The platinum Eagles are also a large financial commitment with small mintages and even fewer collectors buying them. However, the costs to collect any of these coins is not going to terminate any of these programs as the OP reasons might be good enough to terminate the new ATB program. These products are priced an fluctuate with the spot metals price. The ATB coins are near their lowest prices since release and that should catch peoples attention. Fortunately it doesn't occur to every collector and helps to make buying opportunities now for those who do, and those who will seek to profit later from those who don't.

When no one want's something, buy into it.

 

I was never really a fan of this series for 2 reasons. Mainly being that it will take such a long time to complete the series, but also because you have to collect a 5 oz coin for each one. I also thought the quarter design was inappropriate. With the Canadian Wildlife series I'll be able to get 5 coins instead of one 5 oz coin for the same price, and it will be done in another year and a half so I can flip the entire set a lot sooner, while still having plenty of my own stashed away.

 

I guess I'm not sure if you are suggesting they scrap the ATB bullion pucks, or the quarter series all together?

I think the pucks are one of the most ridiculous things to ever come out of the mint, and I consider them novelty items, not numismatic items. As such, I am fine if they disband this program. But, I doubt they will because this is the arena where they rake in the dough.

As for the quarters themselves, I find the series somewhat boring. But "commemorative-type" circulating coinage makes a bigger profit for the US Mint in seignorage than does regular design issues. "Collectors" now have to continue the 5 designs a year and 2 mints = 10 coins collecting if they wish to maintain a collection of US Quarter Dollars. I fear this "commemorative" mentality may be endemic in the Quarter Dollar issues for the foreseeable future.

 

1. The 2010 fiasco is in the past. Cancel the remaining 8 years?

2. Not many people care about the denomination on bullion coins.

3. If you want a Crater Lake quarter, get the Oregon state quarter. There's a limit to the number of sites they can feature, and you're advocating canceling the program it anyways.

4. Presumably they will start making more quarters for circulation someday. I believe they actually produced more last month, although it is unknown right now if they were all Chickasaw or if they cranked out more of an earlier design. To me, its actually a good thing that some of the potentially more desirable designs fell within the low mintage years.

5. Yes, collecting all the 5 ozers is too expensive.

I would be happy either (cancel or continue). The Mint seems to make an awful lot of different versions of these coins.

 

IMO there is not much demand for 5 oz bullion coin simply due to size (not because of price) they should have instead released another set of pure gold (1/10,1/4,1/2,1 oz) and 1/2 and 1 oz silver coins to agument the AGE and compete with the Pandas.

 

It was a flash in the pan, that provided terrific flipping opportunities. Put it out to pasture.

 

+1

 

Bottom line is if the Mint can make money off the program it will continue and the Mint may upset many collectors if they discontinue a program many are committed to. If you don’t like them or can’t afford them, don’t collect them – this applies to plenty of coins that I don’t collect.

I would like to see the Mint attempt to reenergize the P 5oz’er program by cutting off sales after a short time period. This would create some keys that would be received well in the secondary market, and in turn increase interest in future issues.

 

I collect the numismatic versions of the pucks but I wouldn't shed any tears if the 5 oz series was discontinued.
That being said, I'll add that generally the 5 oz coins are very attractive and well done.
I still think the Hot Springs coin looks like a toilet in front of a wall.

 

I don't care either way. Personally I have not bought any yet. If the program had started when silver prices were a lot lower I might be more likely to buy them. But for $150 or so I can buy 1 oz coins like Eagles, Maple Leafs, Pandas, etc. Plus imagine the storage needs you would have for a complete set?

I might buy one eventually just to say that i have one or when it my home state of California comes out. But for now I'm good either way. The designs are ok; nothing spectacular. I don't mind that the "face" value is still 25 cents. Who would actually try to spend one of these as a quarter? If so I've got some state quarters I'll trade with you lol

 

The point about storage is that it is actually easier to store a five oz. coin than it is to store 5 one oz coins, which is partly why it appeals to investors. That and buying a larger piece of metal has a lower premium for them than individual 1 oz coins.

I also feel that as people's homestates come out, the other coins will become more appealing and collecting may grow with that. When the series ends and you see what the exact supply of these coins are, it will also give people pause to reconsider the series as an option for what modern US coins to collect.

 

What I am gathering from these posts is that there is an attitude out
there that says: "I can't afford these so they should be done away
with, and the mint should cater only to my wants and desires" attitude.

 

I bought the 2010's because of what seemed to me to be very low mintages - 33,000 for the bullion and 27,000 for the collector version. Not buying any of the 2011 or later issues, as the 126,500 mintage numbers have scared me off.

 

Are you kidding? They don't make plastic holders for the massive pucks. You can store 20oz of ASEs in stackable plastic containers. The pucks are a joke for storage. As for "appeals to investors" there is a massive mark up on the 5oz coins, whereas if you just want silver you should just buy one ounce rolls. MUCH cheaper.

 

Air-tite sells holders for the ATB coins.

 

Sometimes there's good reason that a collectible falls out of favor, sometimes there isn't. Sometimes it makes a comeback, sometimes it doesnt. But using this logic will net you some winners just like how a broken clock is right 2x a day. if you were to apply this across all collectibles, you'd end up wasting money on far more worthless crap than anything else. Or are you still buying into beanie babies?



As far as killing the series, it doesn't matter too much to me. If it's a money maker and there's some out there that still want it, then no harm in keeping it.

this logic is flawed too. 1 toz rounds/bars are the most popular and most minted bullion size for investors/collectors.

There are tons of storage options for 1 ounce rounds, much less for an odd sized 5 ounce round. If it was so appealing, people would be accumulating these instead and the mint wouldn't be selling tens of millions of SAEs yearly.
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One note about this coin. Like most or all coins produced by the US Mint, it isn't their decision to discontinue this coin. It was the US Congress that mandated the Mint produce this coin and only they can rescind the order. If they don't, the Mint has to produce it as described in the legislation. The law that specified this coin was quite specific on how it had to be made. I recommend that if you don't like it, email or call your congressperson and senators.