Us is downgraded to aa+

I would agree as the guestimated numbers I've seen about cost of production (goldseek article I don't have the link for unfortunately) are very close to what you've been saying around $17-$20 per oz depending on the operation of course. I don't think this can happen however until both the debt is reigned in and the dollar is backed by some sort of metal standard.

 

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Someone on another MB pointed this out to me. One store that sells gold and silver has closed down for the weekened with the following comment

I don't want to say who because i'm not sure if I am allowed to. However this concerns me.

 

i would say it looks like they don't want to sell all there stuff cheap and have the markets sky rocket at 315pm

 

Yeah, which means it will be more difficult fo rme to pick up coins.

 

"Inconsistent" is probably a better word than "unjustified". The frustrating thing to me about the rating agencies is their reluctance to downgrade when appropriate. I think they could do a better job of protecting investors; there are plenty of recent examples of this. Shaping up for pretty good bifurcation in the Dow and PM's tomorrow morning.

Regards,

Bluesboy65

 

China is making comments that it wants another reserve currency other than the U.S. dollar which leads me to believe the U.S. dollar will continue to devalue, only at a much faster pace and Monday will be an interesting day. Doesn't look good.

 

Gold and Silver is going NUTS!

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[TD="width: 80, bgcolor: #000000, align: center"]www.kitco.com[/TD]
[TD="width: 369, bgcolor: #000000, colspan: 5, align: center"]The World Spot Price - Asia/Europe/NY markets[/TD]
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[TD="width: 522, bgcolor: #F3F3E4, colspan: 7, align: center"]SPOT MARKET IS OPEN
( closes in 19 hrs. 22 mins.)[/TD]
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[TD="width: 80, bgcolor: #CCCC99, align: center"]Metals[/TD]
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[TD="width: 80, bgcolor: #CCCC99, align: center"]Time (EST)[/TD]
[TD="width: 68, bgcolor: #CCCC99, align: center"]Bid[/TD]
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[TD="width: 80, bgcolor: #F3F3E4, align: left"] GOLD[/TD]
[TD="width: 80, align: center"]08/07/2011[/TD]
[TD="width: 80, align: center"]21:53[/TD]
[TD="width: 68, align: center"]1693.40[/TD]
[TD="width: 68, align: center"]1694.40[/TD]
[TD="width: 73, align: center"]+30.00[/TD]
[TD="width: 73, align: center"]+1.80%[/TD]
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[TD="width: 80, align: left"] SILVER[/TD]
[TD="width: 80, align: center"]08/07/2011[/TD]
[TD="width: 80, align: center"]21:53[/TD]
[TD="width: 68, align: center"]40.23[/TD]
[TD="width: 68, align: center"]40.33[/TD]
[TD="width: 73, align: center"]+1.91[/TD]
[TD="width: 73, align: center"]+4.98%[/TD]
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[TD="width: 80, align: left"] PLATINUM[/TD]
[TD="width: 80, align: center"]08/07/2011[/TD]
[TD="width: 80, align: center"]21:53[/TD]
[TD="width: 68, align: center"]1717.00[/TD]
[TD="width: 68, align: center"]1725.00[/TD]
[TD="width: 73, align: center"]+1.00[/TD]
[TD="width: 73, align: center"]+0.06%[/TD]
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[TD="width: 80, align: left"] PALLADIUM[/TD]
[TD="width: 80, align: center"]08/07/2011[/TD]
[TD="width: 80, align: center"]21:53[/TD]
[TD="width: 68, align: center"]728.00[/TD]
[TD="width: 68, align: center"]734.00[/TD]
[TD="width: 73, align: center"]-14.00[/TD]
[TD="width: 73, align: center"]-1.89%[/TD]
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Why should they protect investors?
They are in business to give honest assessments of countries and not in business to keep Wall Street investors from losing their shirts.

 

It will be interesting to see if Silver can break and stay over the $50 mark. That seems to be the "wall" that always starts the downward trend.

 

I think it is interesting that S & P only rates China at A+ although with a positive outlook. China denies ever asking Moody to rate them, and yet they want a reserve currency based on their "transparent" financial situation. Politics !!

 

Speaking of their independent role (their honest assessment) so that investors of all stripes (whether investors on wall street, main street or foreign govt.'s) can make an accurate assessment of risk and return. As you pointed out, independence is key. Very critical to the efficient function of credit markets.Regards,Bluesboy65

 

I did a search on Wikipedia several days ago to find out if who Moody's is and I found this:

Moody's has been accused of "blackmail". In one example the German insurer Hannover Re was offered a "free rating" by Moody's. The insurer refused. Moody's continued with the "free ratings", but over time lowered its rating of the company. Still refusing Moody's services, Moody's lowered Hannover's debt to junk, and the company in a few hours lost $175 million in market value.

This information should tell you why China has no respect for Moody's opinion.

 

Peter Schiff and some others have been saying that the level of downgrade is inappropriate, because it really should be lower. In my perspective the ratings agencies are not an accurate reflection of what they are rating, and seem to be more geared toward impacting the direction of the markets than anything else.

P.S. Good to see you back

 

Should we expect an Amero currency which will cover the USA, Mexico and Canada? Sure makes a gold coin collector wonder.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Today, the value of SDRs is based on a basket of four currencies – the US dollar, yen, euro and sterling – and they are used largely as a unit of account by the IMF and some other international organisations.

China’s proposal would expand the basket of currencies forming the basis of SDR valuation to all major economies and set up a settlement system between. SDRs and other currencies so they could be used in international trade and financial transactions.


Ultimately, this sounds more theoretical than anything else right now, and it shouldn't be taken as any definitive sign of China's attitude towards the Dollar. But if you assume that we're wholly dependant on China to continue to finance spending, and they keep making comments like this -- week after week -- you should definitely be a little nervous.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/china-wants-a-new-reserve-currency-2009-3#ixzz1UPnQE08N
​

 

This sort of thing should be getting more attention than has been the case. The rating agencies have a dubious past and have participated in some of the largest errors in analysis, always in favor of the banking elite and never the people. Now they are basically telling the US government what to do, "or else." The whole thing smells bad and looks bad. The US is still enormously powerful and perhaps there should be an FBI investigation of possible criminal activity by the rating agencies. We should find out who they are working for and who is benefitting from events such as the recent downgrade. It is completely irrational to say that an entity that can print unlimited amounts of money has more credit risk than some companies.

I also think China should shut up regarding US domestic policy, but that's another story...

 

Judging by the way the Euro is going right now, I'd say it's pretty unlikely. Germany is the only solid market keeping the Euro afloat right now. If the Amero were introduced, who would be the "Germany"? With the U.S.'s spending habits, I'd say we wouldn't have one.

 

We're not going to get the Amero until and unless the dollar moves on to a better place. The only way I see it working is with a metal standard in which case nobody would need to keep it afloat because it would be sound and solvent. You can bet I will boycott such an attack on national sovereignty.

 

I agree that rating agencies should not be allowed to profit from information they put out.
I was appalled when I found out Moody's is listed on the NYSE and even more appalled when I found out who some of the biggest investors are.This is a perfect "conflict of interest" example.
As far as U.S. policy goes, I am not a U.S. citizen so I really can't comment.

 

Rush2112 and Cloudsweeper99, do you think today's activity in the Dow is a sign traders are, so to speak, "catching on?" We just got back 2/3rds of what we lost just yesterday. I'd like to think that's because we're starting to understand this downgrade for what the two of you are suggesting it is.