First Spouse gold...Are they Bullion or Collectibles??

first spouses retail prices:
2008w-- 1,500.00--eliza proof
2008w-- 1,425.00--eliza unc
2008w-- 1,375.00--louisa proof
2008w-- 1,375.00--louisa unc
2008w-- 1,850.00--v buren proof
2008w-- 1,925.00--v buren unc
2008w-- 1,750.00--jackson proof
2008w-- 1,825.00--jackson unc
2009w-- 1,450.00--anna proof
2009w-- 1,500.00--anna unc
2009w-- 1,525.00--letitia proof
2009w-- 1,575.00--letitia unc
2009w-- 1,925.00--julia proof
2009w-- 2,100.00--julia unc
2009w-- 1,375.00--sarah proof
2009w-- 1,475.00--sarah unc
2009w-- 1,375.00--margaret proof
2009w-- 1,350.00--margaret unc
2010w-- 1,325.00--abigail proof
2010w-- 1,300.00--abigail unc
2010w-- 1,325.00--jane proof
2010w-- 1,250.00--jane unc
2010w-- 1,225.00--buchanan proof
2010w-- 1,200.00--buchanan unc

 

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Hello Gang, long time no talk....contrary to recent rumors...I haven't fallen off the face of the earth.

These coins will always be collectible to someone somewhere. In the past year, I sold off all my unc FS coins to free up capital to buy other coins. I sold them for nearly doubled my buy price for the first two years and didn't do too bad on the 2009 ones either. I am holding on to my 2010 until they are sold out then I will sell those off and be completely divested of my unc FS coins (except the Liberty ones). With the way the price of gold has increased in the past year, these coins are quickly falling out of my price range. I have given serious thought about divesting my proof FS coins as well and buying some real collector coins such as a nice 16D or 09 SVDB.

Here is a observation which I have made in the past six months working with a buddy of mine at coins show....I have seen many "collector" coins go the way of "bullion" items. It is quite sad. So here is something to ponder, if collectible coins can be sold for bullion and bullion coins be collectible.....aren't they really one in the same? I think the more appropriate question should be is "Will these always be bullion or will they have a Numismatic Value"?

Also, I know this is an old thread but I had to jump back in somewhere!

 

Hey Joe. Dat really you?

 

I'm down to just my 8-coin Liberty set (the 4-coin set in unc and proof)... sold off the rest of them.

And if I could find a buyer at those retail prices posted a few posts above I'd probably sell off those Liberty design spouse coins as well!!! $11k+ for my Liberty proof and unc set and I'm cashing out today!!!!

 

where did you get those prices

 

I've never seen them that high. Unless they were graded. Then again, I am only going by mint pricing. I don't think I'd buy a FS coin unless it was from the mint direct. Not at this stage anyways. For me economically it's cheaper to buy direct from the mint. Does anyone else do that, to avoid high dealer price mark ups?

 

I have been doing that but you have to return them 2 or 3 times to get an unblemished one- quality control is just non-existent (and this for coins with a substantial mark-up over melt)

 

Of course that makes sense for the 2011 coins and future issues, but you ain't going to get any of these from the Mint at Mint pricing anymore:



I was recently offered $9,000 for the eight coins from a coin dealer which I turned down. I suspect retail on the set is slightly higher if the dealer was willing to buy at that price, but I don't believe the retail prices are as high as posted by anchor... perhaps those are prices for PCGS MS70 and PR70 examples?

 

no these are the real selling prices offered by apmex. if fact at golden eagle. some first spouses prices were even higher than apmex. and all these prices were only a little bit over cdn latest ask prices. that's mean the selling prices should be higher than those two dealers.

last few weeks. the cdn newsletters always shown first spouses increase some $25.00 to $50.00 each. but not the first year issues.

 

My 2 cents

Knowing the mintage # of all 1st Spouses 24kt Gold.I think some time down the road they will be come a Modern rarity ???
*as I lot have been melted.
**not to large of a mintage in MS or PF.
***but I may never see that day as I am to Old to make it 50+ years.
But it maybe sooner than that????
But my granddaughter may reap a large reward?
:kewl:

 

Hey-ya Joe! Waddaya know?

The prices listed above seem close to what I've seen MS70 and PF70 coins sell for on eBay. "Some" of the '69s sell for a slight premium, as well. I'm surprised to see prices stay firm given the number of people liquidating their collections.

Even folks that can keep up with the series, don't have much left over for other pursuits. Given that this is nearly a ten (10) year series, it's easy to understand why so many are abandoning the series. Rising gold prices and a shrinking collector base conspire to produce even lower mintages in the future. The Eliza Johnson seems particularly weak and may be the next "Key" to the series.

Many speculate that collector interest will continue to wane and the series will never be worth much more than bullion. They look to the performance of the US Mint's "American Arts Commemorative Series medallions" as evidence of what's in store for the "First Spouse Bullion" series.

The American Arts Series was a series of ten (10) gold commemorative medallions (the first of each year being 1 Oz and the second being 1/2 Oz) issued between 1980 and 1984. It's been reported that many of the medallions were later melted or made into jewelry. The surviving numbers are unknown. They are still available from retailers such as APMEX.

Year.....Design....................Minted..........Sold
1980.....Grant Wood.................500,000.......312,709
1980.....Marian Andersen........1,000,000.......281,624
1981.....Mark Twain.................141,000.......116,371
1981.....Willa Cather................200,000.........97,331
1982.....Louis Armstrong...........420,000.......409,098
1982.....Frank Lloyd Wright........360,000.......348,345
1983.....Robert Frost................500,000.......390,669
1983.....Alexander Calder..........410,000.........75,571
1984.....Helen Hayes..................35,000.........33,546
1984.....John Steinbeck..............35,000.........32,572

The fact that these were medallions and not legal tender coins set them apart from the First Spouse series. In fact, the 1980 and 1981 coins didn't even list their gold content or the country of origin. As you can see, the mintages of the First Spouse series are considerably lower than those of the American Arts series and, even though First Spouse coins are called "bullion", they're still legal tender coins.

I firmly believe that once the First Spouse series ends and all the people dumping their collections are out of the market, prices will begin to rise. Some prices have already risen quite a bit above bullion...even with all the selling that's going on.

Using modern commemorative gold coins for comparison, since 1982, gold commemorative mintages less than 12,000 have enjoyed numismatic premiums above their bullion value. Subject matter and design play a role, but I still think you'll find that the 12,000 figure holds up (on average). That suggests there are approximately 12,000 gold commemorative collectors in the world willing to pay a premium over bullion (if required) to complete their collections.

As the First Spouse collector base expands beyond the observed mintages, competition should put upward pressure on prices. Especially after the series ends, I expect the First Spouse collector base to expand beyond that of commemorative gold.

Worst case scenario...you end up with some nice gold bullion.

Best case scenario...you end up with a collection that will be unattainable once the series ends.

To quote Noah Cross (John Huston) in the movie "Chinatown"...

First Spouse coins should be added to the list. :thumb:

 

I agree with yakpoo. The low mintage and the subject matter will make these highly desirable in the future.

For the small amount of extra money, I'd rather have a 1/2 oz Julia Grant than a 1/2 oz Gold Eagle any day.

 

the main issue for me is acquiring unblemished examples- most of the coins that the mint sends out are blemished- look closely at your coins (but with no magnification).

 

Yakpoo is awesome.

The more of the FS I get the more I want to continue the series. I'm actually thinking about starting to buy two of the UNCs every time so I can have one to sell later and not break up my collection. (I've been getting just the UNCs)
I really think this is an amazing interesting set.
I came to the game late and as such had to pay "retail" to get a complete set. However looking at the current prices another poster listed I'm ahead right now.

Hey Danr, what exactly are you looking for when you send a coin back to the mint. So for I've just been ordering one and taking what they give me.

 

small spots break in luster and such

 

Perhaps I have been fortunate. So far everything I have gotten from the mint seems to be "perfect". I do examine my coins with a 5X loup. None I have received has ever had a scratch etc. As far as luster how deep the cameo effect is etc, I can't say what they would grade since I have never sent them in. But as far as having blemishes, or milkspots, etc. I haven't had a problem - so far. IF I buy a FS it will only be the 2nd gold goin I ever owned, but the first modern one purchased. So I am researching and watching what others say about the FS coins. I like them a lot myself.

 

Yeah thanks!!!.. I forgot these were listed in the greysheets... just looked up the 8-coin Liberty subset (proof & unc) and total Bid is up to $9,670 and the Ask price is up to $10,100!!! Not too bad!!! These have indeed gone up significantly in the past few months. I don't think the run up in the non-common date Spouse coins is over either. Demand is apparently high at the moment but the supply isn't there. Over on Collectors Universe right now there are 5-6 dealers posting that they want to buy 2008-2010 Spouse coins... I've even had a couple send me messages offering to buy mine. The competiton amongst the buyers for the very limited supply is a nice thing to observe

 

well believe it or not. a lot of people did not realize the first spouse price increases. since the increases are within latest few weeks time. they always thought all first spouse is still near bullion value. and nobody like it.

if i have to sell my Anna Harrison uncirculated 1/2 oz gold coin. my price will be at least $1,650.00 each. but i am not. see 2008w to 2010w first spouses over $2,000.00 soon.

 

Like all things, outside of hype and bullion value, the transaction price is determined by supply and demand. Even if there is only 5,000 issued, if only 500 want them , it will be close to bullion. To guessimate value in the future, the same applies, and I can't see an increase in desireability by collectors over the current demand due to the current mint's and sellers hype, price and availability of metals, etc. I suspect their highest relative value ( excluding bullion value) is here. If they appeal to a person, then by all means collect them, but don't consider it an investment over bullion for the future.

IMO,

Jim

 

They cost a lot and there are a lot of them, so few people will collect them all.

So I think a limited number will do very well and the rest will do just ok.

I would look for ones that have appeal to collectors across different fields and some of the more modern ones will appeal to a wide audience for years to come. I would also look for ladies who stood out for their accomplishments and causes.

For example, the Julia Grant coin could have value to Civil War collectors. It also has an image of a young Ulysses on the reverse, which makes it pretty special to me.

Looking at the more recent presidents, Jacqueline Kennedy is an extremely popular figure.

A lot of the others, while historical figures, we don't know much about.