Bars of Silver at Melt price?

I've been looking on ebay for a nice bar of silver to purchase, looking to pay around melt. Is this so unheard of? It seems like everyone is charging a huge % premium over melt for bars. I don't know much of bar investing, but is this normal? It doesn't seem like it would be as it is really nothing special other than a bar. Or maybe I am way off? Thanks for the help..

 

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Ebay prices are often ridiculously high. There are always a few people out there that are willing to pay way too much. Combine that with all the rebate programs there are (ebay bucks, multiple "click-through" sites such as Big Crumbs or bing offering up to 15% cash back specials, and then pay for it all with your rewards credit card. Deals can be had if you are patient. But if you are buying more than 10 or 20 ounces, it would be best to look elsware.

 

It depends on the type of silver bar that you want to get. For example, 1-oz silver art bars are nice bars to collect, however, they are the most expensive 1-oz silver bars to purchase on ebay because you are dealing with rarity values since a lot of the different silver art bars are rare. With current silver spot price of $35, expect to pay between $45-$50 for a common minted 1-oz silver art bar. If it is a rare silver art bar, then it is going to cost you more if you buy (or win) one on ebay.

If you are looking to buy a regular 1-oz .999 generic silver bar such as an Engelhard or a Johnson Mathey brand on ebay, then you will still have to pay a premium for it but it will not be as big a premium as the one on a silver art bar.

In reality, you will not be able to find a 1-oz silver bar of ANY kind on ebay for melt. If you do an ebay search for 1-oz silver bars on ebay, you will find that you will pay a premium for each one and that premium is going to be several dollars above the current spot price.

The best place to buy 1-oz .999 generic silver bars for the lowest possible premium IMO is from a bullion dealer that is in your area.

If you are looking to buy a silver bar that is larger than 1-oz, then I still think that a local dealer can give you the best price for a particular sized bar.

EDIT: If there is a coin show in your area, then they can also be good places to buy silver bars for a low premium. More than likely, you will pay a silver premium on silver bars regardless of size and regardless of where you go to buy the silver bars from.

 

Thanks for the help, paying extra for someone's "art" is definately of no value to me. I will have to check out some local shows. Is it considered insulting to offer melt price to dealers? I know theres usually mark-up in all hobbies. I'm thinking I could do something like a 3-5oz bar. In all honestly I don't like the look of the designs on any of them, are there any US Gov. mints that make them? I sort of like the look of just a plain bar with a sort of old sunken treasure look to it.

 

You might just have to shop around to find the lowest premium for a silver bar. If you go to a coin show in your area, you will still have to shop around for the lowest premium because there might be a lot of dealers at a particular coin show that selling silver bars. You will be hard pressed to pay melt for a silver bar that is larger than 1-oz. Even for a 3-5oz bar, you still will pay a premium for it but it might not be as big a premium on a 3-5oz bar as there would be on a 1-oz silver bar. I think that the lowest premium for any type of silver would be 90% junk silver but if you are looking for the lowest premium on .999 silver bars, then it would more than likely be on 100-oz silver bars such as Engelhard and Johnson Mathey bars. Even with a 100-oz bar, you will pay a premium for it.

EDIT: Is it insulting to offer melt price to dealers? Honestly I do not know because I have never asked. At the worst, the dealer will just say no to your offer. Generally speaking, you will pay a premium for silver bars and the main objective is to find silver bars at the lowest premium possible if you are just buying silver bars just to have silver and not to collect. I also want to say that I have paid spot price for a few 1-oz silver art bar in the past but I got very lucky and that is very rare for me to pay spot for any silver art bar or for any type of .999 silver for that matter. That does not happen very much at all.

 

If you are looking for that "sunken treasure" look, check out "poured" bars instead of pressed or stamped ones. Engelhard and Johnson Mathey have products like this, but they are a little more expensive. look on Apmex's site and check out some of the bars on this page. Look for the ones that say "poured". http://www.apmex.com/Category/1188/Engelhard__Johnson_Matthey_Silver_Bars.aspx
Also take a look at all of their silver bars and familiarize yourself with the bars and sizes they come in, along with the prices.
http://www.apmex.com/Category/1184/Silver_Bars_All_Sizes__Manufacturers.aspx

Most gov't mints only mint coins (American Silver Eagles, Maple leafs, Vienna Philharmonics). Most bars are made by private mints.
If you could find a coin shop near you it would definately be your best bet as far as price goes. Also try pawn shops if you can't find a coin shop. At my local coin shop, 1oz generic (verious private mints, such as Sunshine mint, silvertowne, and other recognizeable private mints) silver bars are usually sold at a premium of $1- $1.50 over spot.

 

If you are going to be shopping at dealers, you are not going to find silver bars at spot. If they sold them at spot then they would be out of business. The best way to get silver at spot is what 1970 Silver Art said, look for 90% silver. Dealers in my area sell if for spot. You can also look on craigslist, sometimes you can find a deal there.

 

Thanks for the help guys, I really love the way those silvertowne look and they would fit in nicely with my nevada/casino collection. I also like the plain poured... What are your opinions on values between the two? Does one have any financial advantage over the other (fluctuation, liquidity, desirability etc). The high polishing looks relly nice on the one hand and and the plain bar look is sweet too. might be time for a picture showoff contest?

 

If melt value = spot price, then keep in mind that spot is only offered on depository sized bars or amounts. A silver futures contract which predicts this price is for 5000 ounces of silver.

Smaller bars are going to have a premium over this because of all the extra handling.

 

Generally, any bar from a reputable mint that is stamped .999 and stamped its weight will be perfectly liquid enough for investing. Personally, if someone was selling bars to me though, I would be a little bit suspicious with a poured bar. Mainly because it seems it would be much easier to fake a poured bar (although many brands stamp a serial number on them). A pressed bar would need to be "minted" with dies and expensive equipment.
This may make it slightly harder to sell a poured bar. But if you sell to a dealer (as opposed to a random person you met) they can very easily determine the bar's authenticity.

Also, as it has been said by some others, you should consider buying 90% "junk silver" (Pre 1965 circulated US quarters, half dollars, and dimes). These can be bought for almost no premium at all, or even slightly less than thier melt value.

I hold half my silver in 90% silver, and half in 1 ounce gov't minted coins.

 

great recommendations thanks. I've actually noticed on ebay now that some of the poured stuff (namely Engelhard) selling for wayy over spot price, like this one. There must be alot of collector value there, its $100 over? I think I'd rather just get the minted stuff.

also side question, are there any minted bars that measure in avoirdupois ounce? Or is everything pretty much troy ounce for bars? does NYSE price go by troy or avo.?

 

Yes, the Engelhard bars do carry a high premium. I'm not very familiar with them though.

Basically everything is measured in Troy ounces or grams (usually 1 kilogram, or there are small bars like 5 or 10 grams). The spot price is measured in troy ounces, and I have never really seen any bullion product that was measured in avoirdupois ounces. There may be some odd ball silver bars out there that are measured in avoirdupois ounces but I would stay away from anything like that.

 

Northwest Territorial Mint is a very reputable online dealer. And they have a wide range of products. Here is a link to there "online store" where there is no minimum order limit. Shipping is $10 for orders up to $250, $20 for $250-400, and $30 for orders of $400 or more. https://store.nwtmint.com/Bullion_Gold_Silver_Platinum_Palladium/Signature_Silver_Bullion/

If you can afford to buy a higher limit, here is a link to there regular bullion sales. Shipping is free here, the prices you see are the prices you pay. http://bullion.nwtmint.com/silver.php

 

All of the above is good advice. I would just add that you should stay away from sterling bars [.925] that sometimes sell for what looks like a bargain price, but are more difficult to dispose of without a large discount.

 

Yes, like said by cloudsweeper99, stay away from anything that isn't .999. The bar should have the weight clearly marked on the bar, and it should be stamped/marked either "999" or ".999" or "999 fine silver" etc. There are alot of odd items on ebay that you might find that differ from this.

Also, beware of any ebay silver bars that say "100 mills fine silver", or "500 mills", this is a fancy, and deceptive way of saying "this bar is only silver plated". These bars contain a negligible amount of silver. There are also a few other tricks like this that I cant think of off the top of my head, but if you car unsure, just post a link here, and we can give you advice!

 

To add to dan8802, also watch out for items labeled as "German Silver" which is 60% copper, 20% nickel and 20% zinc and contains NO real silver at all.

 

i bet the germans aren't too happy about that connotation. :too-funny:
I have noticed alot of junk for like $10 and whatnot, with no bidders, anytime i see something without bidders its usually red flags. Since I've found it pretty impossible to find these near melt, is it safe to say that any premium that you pay for a bar will stay constant with price increases? So if a 5oz bar sells for $200 when spot is only $175, Would a theoretical 6oz bar sell around $240 when spot is $210? Makes sense I guess, at first I just didn't like the idea of paying more for less.

 

That depends, but there is a saying that goes "buy with a premium, sell with a premium". Certain items will retain their premium more than others. Gov't minted bullion like American silver eagles, Canadian Maple leafs, and Philharmonics will retain their premium more. Private minted bullion may only retain a $1 premium.

 

Made my first purchase today at a local coin shop, got these for 2.50 over spot which is great to me because the ones I see selling on ebay are almost $10 over spot! I assume this is one of the higher quality/more prestigous private minters? Thanks to everybody here and I look forward to adding more. Gonna need to find a silvertowne one now!

 

Congrats on getting your feet wet! $2.50 over spot isn't bad at all. I just checked the APMEX link on the previous page, and 1 oz JM bars are going for $45+ which seems absurd (not to mention 1/2 oz'ers are too!). I got really lucky at a coin show last weekend and got to cherry pick a guy's ASE collection for $37 a pop, including a 1986! But typically $2-3 over for more generic silver is standard.