APMEX America The Beautiful 5 oz update

As it should be.

 

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Kick ass! Glad to hear it - now to find someplace that will sell me another one!! WHOS GOT EM??

 

$45.75 for shipping.....what a joke.

 

well the package weighs 25 ounces and it's worth $859.95. Between the insurance and heavy weight it doesn't seem too far out of line to me. I think some times we want to see people sticking it to us when that just isn't the case in order to justify our own outrage.

IMHO APMEX acted in a very responsible manner. Whether or not that was persuasion or coercion I don't know, but I will give them credit for doing the right thing regardless of who's idea it really was.

 

Agree, and that $45.75 also includes the credit card surcharge. I just put 25oz of Silver Eagles in my cart at Apmex to check it out, and shipping was $19.95 for check/money order payment or $44.78 for credit card. Basically they add 3% for credit card payments which also isn't out of line.

 

We can now scratch Gainesville Coins off the list of potential sellers.
My question:
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 4:06 PM
To: Alan
Subject: When you were offline (via LivePerson)

any word on the America the Beautiful 5 ounce silver coins yet! Thanks Jon

Just got this email from them:
Unfortunately due to new restrictions put into effect by the US Mint, we will not be selling these coins. We do appreciate you checking with us.

Best Regards
Joe

 

Not a great surprise as they're not an authorized purchaser. Given the new guidelines you can cross anything other than the 11 APs off the list. Normally the APs would distribute them to companies such as GC, Provident etc, but they are contractually bound to sell these particular coins to the public, limit of 1 of each coin per household.

 

maybe i'm just tired from a long day at work, but I do find this interesting. Mainly with regards to how many of these coins/sets are going to end up getting graded, and with particular interest to the availability of "First Strike/Early Release" coins. Typically these are readily available since these companies usually send hundreds of thousands of in at a time but since they have to go to the public first I am thinking there will be far fewer available... Will be interesting to see...

 

Indeed. Doubtless there will be some flippers with a network of "friends and family" who place orders on their behalf and who subsequently get them graded for resale, but nonetheless there will be a vastly reduced possibility of submissions by anyone other than John Q Public.

I have to admit that having been firmly in the not interested camp, I'm considering a set of these purely based on scarcity. Plus at $860 for a set of 5, you're only looking at $34.40 / oz for the silver content alone. That's not far off retail price for regular ASEs at the moment - as I type, Apmex lists them at $33.53 per oz - and a way reduced premium compared to the 2010 ASE proof with a mintage north of 1 million.

Imagine how a set of 50 bullion plus 50 collector ATB 5oz coins would look. Drool. So much nicer than 5 x 100oz bars.

 

From Speedie: "I have to admit that having been firmly in the not interested camp, I'm considering a set of these purely based on scarcity. Plus at $860 for a set of 5, you're only looking at $34.40 / oz for the silver content alone."

I have only wanted the Yellowstone coin, looks like now I will have to buy the entire 5 coin set. I am still on the fence about this, leaning toward trying to get the 5 coin set. I will say: "This sure is fun!"

 

Agreed on all points! (Err except the "not interested camp"!) At this price they are worth it just as bullion value, but since I got my 2010 proof set a few weeks ago and saw all 5 coins in hand I was very impressed with the detail and designs. I was thinking of dedicating a spot on my wall so I can just look at them all the time... Of course they would have to be extremely well secured, maybe behind some bullet proof glass as by the time the series is complete. At todays prices we are talking about $8500 @ melt for the complete set, yet alone what it will be worth in the collecting community. Anyone want to stab a guess at what the spot price of silver will be in 12 years???

 

Go check ebay - there is at least 1 seller who is selling them individually and has the Yellowstone one on there right now... on a side note I did notice there are 2 sets on there bidding at over $1500 each...

 

I'm surprised EBAY is allowing those listings, because no one has received them in hand as yet. I could be wrong though.

 

I am watching this!
thanks
Jon

 

One can't legally sell an item they don't have in hand. This auction is closing in 4 hours. This is what started all the BS in the first place .

 

One could argue that that's exactly what JPM and their ilk do every day of the week, but let's not go there. The auctions I've seen have been clearly marked as pre-sales with money refunded if delivery is not made within 30 days. It's the same as Amazon taking pre-orders on a yet-to-be-released DVD, Barnes and Noble on an upcoming book etc. Nothing illegal about it AFAIK as long as the buyer is made aware that a) it's a pre-sale and b) they will get their money back in the event of non-delivery.

Having said that, I foresee problems for some of these Ebay pre-sellers when their buyers manage to get a set from an AP for $860 rather than the $2,700+ that some sets have pre-sold for.

 

I don't care how many disclaimers they issue. The Pre-Sales via EBAY or any other auction type service should not be permitted . We will see what if anything EBAY determines.

 

With respect, "should not be permitted" vs "can't legally" is an apples to toasters comparison, as is Ebay's TOS vs the law of the land. Are the pre-sales obnoxious? Yes. Did they create a bunch of problems? Yes. Is it capitalism at work? Yes. Nobody forced the buyers to buy, or the sellers to take on the liability for delivery. They agreed on their respective obligations and a price for assuming them.

And lest this thread go the way of the other one, I shall quote Mr. Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that"

 

The key word being " Auction " , one can't legally auction anything they don't possess , legally own. or have exclusive right to act as auctioneer by the owner or maker. That is why the mint stipulated to it's distributors they were not to offer the coins for sale, until they actually took possession of them. The mint also recognized these distributors, were not legally authorized to pre-sell the ATB's , when they were not in legal possession of the coins to begin with. I don't want to argue this point with anyone. It's just common sense. You must be in possession and legally own or have a right to sell or auction . Clearly, these pre-sale EBAY Sellers do not have legal possession of these coins. With all due respect, Can't legally applies.

 

The Mint stipulated no such thing, I've read the memo in its entirety.

As noted, I don't want to see, or be a party to, this thread being derailed like the last one was in a sea of legalese. I own and operate several successful businesses that routinely place and take pre-orders for products, on both fixed-price and auction bases, so I'm intimately familiar with the legality of it both as a buyer and seller. If you would like to take it to PM I'm more than happy to pit wits there.