Was This Out of Line?

Shouldn't he have simply submitted a "Best Offer", since the option is available with the listing, instead of going through the messaging route?

As a seller, if I put up the "Make an Offer" option on eBay, I find it just a bit irritating when folks send me a message asking what would be the best price I would accept for the coin. Obviously, the "best price" is what it's listed for otherwise some other BIN price would have been put up.

 

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I agree with nearly everyone here. A seller will not just give you his absolutely lowest number, why should he? You are a live fish, and its his duty to get as much from you as possible, while still selling it.

You are smart and researched it, I would have from that research come up with a price I was happy with and offered it. It would be his call to accept or counter.

 

Part of your education is knowing that just because HE got a bargain (or overpaid), it does not mean YOU should get a bargain (or overpay). Also, it's up to YOU to determine what YOU think is fair. It's not your job to make sure the buyers didn't make money off the transaction. You were invited to make an offer, but you wanted the seller to make the offer after he's already mad one. You asked him to make a second offer without you're making a counter offer. This is what is called bidding against yourself and the seller is not likely to take kindly to this poor business practice. Unless you're a sports agent, you won't generally find it a common practice.

I would not say you were out of line, but I would consider it immature to the ways of normal commerce.

I often find the individual coins I can identify and find out what they've sold for in the past. Some times they're substantially higher. Other times they don't attract bids or offers at half the price. YOU as a buyer have to determine what you are willing to pay. The seller has to determine what he is willing to accept. If you can meet at an acceptable price, you can complete a transaction. If not, then you won't. That's the market.

The idea of flipping it quickly is sometimes maligned. But it is the best way to make sure the seller stays in business and that the buyer can obtain his purchase with the minimum markup. If you have a seller that refuses to ever take a loss on a transaction, he will wind up holding overpriced stock for an inordinate amount of time and reduce his sales. But it does seem to be a business model common in numismatics.

 

What do you call the BIN price? I call that speaking first.

 

I agree. Why do buyers think they are entitled to that information? The seller lists a BIN price and is entertaining offers. It is incumbent upon the buyer to decide how much they will pay for the item and submit their offer. Once the offer is submitted, the seller has to the option to decline, accept, or counteroffer and continue the negotiation process. Buyers who ask for my best price on E-Bay is my pet peeve.

 

Just a humorous aside, I imagine if someone asked me for my best price, I would say a Million Dollars. When the inevitable shock is displayed, I would follow up with, "You asked me for MY best price, not YOUR best price."

 

That's the same as the BIN button! Just look at Paul's coins! Just kidding Paul...or am I?

 

I think the entire act of asking for his best price is absurd when he has a clearly marked buy it now price with an option to entertain offers. Want his best price? Offer YOUR best price or something even lower and see what he comes back with. I dont see it as giving you any sort of advantage by knowing how much he paid for the coin prior to you attempting to buy it.

 

Well, I will admit that I have a few coins listed that I don't really want to sell. I consider them advertising pieces.

 

I will say that getting down to the insult level of offers can get one put on the Blocked list. Just because a coin slipped threw the cracks at a summer sale does not mean that is it's true value in some cases.
BTW when some offers come in they just get sent to the recycle bin too.

 

The seller may have acquired the coin directly from Heritage after viewing auction lots in-hand and realizing the coin was nicer than portrayed in the Heritage images. In cases such as these, the people who make the time and expend the effort and resources to view lots in-hand have a great advantage over those who rely on an internet purchase and all the conveniences that the internet provides. Therefore, his possible expenditure of resources may have allowed him to acquire the coin at a level lower than it may have realized with better images, with a return policy or with an in-hand inspection. A buyer can never be entitled to a single bid increment increase upon purchase of a coin that was in a prior auction, but if the coin fit the description written above then the coin might reasonably be priced at far higher than a one bid increment increase.

I have a real example of this that happened to me during the Heritage FUN auction at Tampa, FL in January, 2011. I took the time and spent my resources to attend the show and examine lots in-hand. Of course, this is my business so it was a business expense. Two lots in the auction were far nicer than the images suggested and I won both lots. One of those lots was for a circulated Seated Liberty dime that has a Greysheet bid of about $40, but routinely sells for around $80. I won this dime for $75 and subsequently listed it on my website at $125. Within a day of having the coin listed, with very good images that I had taken, I had three folks request to purchase the dime. However, one of those potential buyers told me that he thought the 67% potential profit was excessive and that I should reduce my sales price. His reasoning on 67% was the $50 difference in the Heritage sales price and my listed price. I kindly pointed out to him that Heritage charges $14 minimum per lot won, which raised the price to $89. Further, the auction closed after the show closed and I was not in attendance in Tampa, FL when it closed so Heritage charged me approximatley $12 per coin to ship the coins to me, which then raised my cost to $101 for the coin. Finally, I pay for shipping and insurance on coins sent to clients, which means that the coin likely cost me $107 out of pocket before a client even examined the piece in-hand. All of a sudden, my $125 asking price seemed quite modest for a superb coin.

 

I just happily skip past any ridiculous BIN listings on eBay.

 

I would call it Mike not paying close enough attention.

Good point.

 

Not so much for coins, but I have managed to pick up some real nice bargains there. For instance, I picked up a complete set of steel cents NGC 67 for $100. They were even pretty nice coins for 67's .

 

It's kind of interesting that I just went through a Buy it Now - Make an Offer transaction.

It was mislabeled by PCGS and I informed the seller, but indicated I needed it as a variety I didn't have. He had it looked at by Tom Reynolds who confirmed it was mislabeled and also informed the seller that it was a rare variety. Since everyone had now exercised their due diligence, I made an offer under the make an offer choice. The seller countered at a price acceptable to me. This is how it's designed to work.

Though I don't think it was incumbant on me to inform the seller of the PCGS labeleing mistake, I did so to encourage his acceptance of a lower acceptable price and to give him the opportunity to recover some of his costs by the guarantee. He chose not to go through the hasle.

But now I'm happy as a lark with my mislabeled S-94. Of course, I get to choose whether to have it reholdered or to free it from it's tomb.

ps Technically, since it has a buy it now price, it should be make a counter offer.

 

"Over the line", no, but deserving or not, dont be surprised if he ignores and/or blocks you. With all due respect, by telling him you know what the coin sold for a few months ago, he is probably not thinking of you as an "educated seller" (buyer). Did you expect him to think something like "awe shucks.. he caught me" or "wow, this guy is educated" then offer the coin at or near cost? Honest question.

It is also worth remembering that ebay and Heritage are two different venues. If you want the satisfaction of an instant buy on ebay - depending on the coin - you might have to pay for it. You had the same chance he (possibly) did to buy the coin from Heritage, but didn't take advantage of it. If you want a similar example in the Heritage price range and cannot find one on ebay, wait until another comes up, but don't expect a seller to cave just because you assume to know what he has into it.

A better approach may have been to come up with an approximate total price the seller is likely to have into the coin, add ebay/paypal fees, and a low-but-reasonable profit percentage, then make your offer (without saying anything else) if you can live with this number. If not, and unless its a truly tough coin (doubtful at $56), you might as well keep looking elsewhere.

 

If he didn't know the seller from previous transactions, it was a bit much. Approaching a first contact transaction with so much scrutiny, would definitely make me think this buyer is and will be difficult. I'd pass on any dealings, ignore and block.

 

A courtesy alert that torontokuba resurrected this two year old thread to express his opinion. I ask for those who do this to at least note they are revisiting an old thread. I would assert that most viewers assume threads are current unless noted otherwise!

 

Nothing wrong with what you did. It was an inquiry as to finding a mutual acceptable price. If he didn't want to sell it for a more realistic price, it is the prerogative of the buyer to pass, and the seller to refuse the transaction. Any polite information given in negotiation is fine as far as I am concerned--it is bargaining.