Vote on my next "big ticket coin".

This is it, the last coin I will be buying this year (as far as anything over $20.).

I have several coins in mind. I like all of them...equally. However I want you to decide which one I should get.

1719 Farthing. Choice 1.







1806 Halfpenny Choice 2.




1816 Sixpence. Choice 3.




1836 Fourpence. Choice 4.

 

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I went with the 1806 Half Penny. Sorry to waste everyone's time, I wasn't reading rows correctly, I thought it said $295, but it was only $225, so I got it.

According to NGC guide, it's worth $250 in MS60, this is MS63, so I felt $225 was a great price. It does not have that out of place mint red that some have, and it's not dark like some. I love the patina.

Since the min for layaway is $300, I tossed in this beautiful 1898 Maundy 4 pence. MS66!! MS63 ins $50.00, so I think $89.00 was a good price.




I'm glad the dealer has layaway (and I wish more did). I don't like chunking out a bunch of money at once.

Most likely this winter I will be sending these into PCGS. I don't like NGC's holders. I think the halfpenny might upgrade to MS64 @PCGS, there is not many marks on it.

 

It would have received my vote

 

Somehow I think I should put good money on a wager that you will fall off the wagon and blow that statement into an abyss - in mere days.

 

What happened to saving for school or moving to Michigan? Isn't that one coin about a weeks pay at you current job? Oh well.

 

Wow, beauties...

 

I wonder if Chris at NE knows who he is dealing with? Then Opie is going to go off on some anti-NE rant when something goes wrong - and I will point Chris to it. I have been dealing with them for years and have never ever had less than stellar service.

 

Oh I foresee someone not paying his layaway payment on time then complaining when he loses his deposit.

 

Tim,

First off, your second post (notice, the first reply to the thread was from you...) contradicts your first post, since you bought two coins over $20. Secondly, you shouldn't be buying coins on layaway, but that's something else entirely.

That said, I don't think $89 was a good price, but it's the price you were willing to pay.

5 MS63
8 MS64
9 MS65
6 MS66
1 MS67

Based upon the above coins being graded by NGC, I'd assume (perhaps wrongly), that MS66 coins would guide (on average) about 50-70% over MS63, with extra being offered here or there for better eye appeal. MS67 would see a bump for top grade, I suppose (depending upon overall demand, of course).

I would say MS66 would probably retail about $75-$85, so you overpaid a bit, but it's a coin you wanted, and you're happy with the purchase.

I don't think PCGS would upgrade the SOHO. Are you planning to crack the coins out to submit them? There are two fairly large scratches coming off the neck into the field on the obverse. Also, overall "black/grey" color to the coin would limit eye appeal, even with reasonably strong details. Beyond that, the third I in "3" is nicked up somewhat, and there is overall weakness to the center details of the coin. I wouldn't risk cracking it out, personally, and submitting it in the holder is simply throwing money away, since it will be returned in an NGC holder (worst case for you, since you dislike the holders) or come back with a PCGS MS63 holder (which might actually be worse for marketability of the coin, since NGC is more widely known for world coins).

Here are the SOHO (BN) grades:

NGC
7 MS63
11 MS64
6 MS65
5 MS66

PCGS
4 MS62
6 MS63
7 MS64
4 MS65

It's doubtful, with that many MS64/65 grades out there that your MS63 would be pushing upgrade quality for MS64. Also, looking at the two MS64 coins on coinfacts, I would guess your coin would not be upgrading to an MS64, and it might actually get downgraded to MS62. Personally, I'd just leave things be. If you absolutely must do something, send it to CAC. Another issue with this particular coin is the potential for rim damage being hidden by the NGC tab.

Beyond ALL of that, it's fiduciary irresponsibility to regrade that coin to hope for a MS64 upgrade. You'll have to pay $45 to get it graded if you send it as a crossover, since the PCGS "value" of a MS63 is $300+. It wouldn't qualify for economy price unless you submitted it raw. So, essentially, you'll be $270 into the coin, not including shipping fees, simply because you want a different slab, and *think* it might upgrade to a MS64, which would hold a probable resale value of $280.

I don't see how these coins fit your entire thing about changing your buying habits to only buy the best coins. If you prefer PCGS holders, buy coins in PCGS holders.

 

I believe some of the scratches are on the slab itself.

Weakness is common, this was minted over 200 years ago dude. They didn't have everything perfected back then, and this was a new type of coin all in itself.

 

Weren't the English using the same system of copper minting for the half penny from 1672? Over 130 years seems like a good deal of time to optimize a process. Also, my point was that the series (1806-1807 1/2P) tended to have stronger details in the middle and weaker near the rims. Given that your coin has somewhat strong rim detail, the center weakness *might* be viewed as wear (slider), and it definitely holds the coin back from higher than a 64. The grey (non-copper colored) oxidation and nicks on the I are probably enough to hold the coin to 62/63 range. If the marks on the neck are on the coin and not the holder, you're looking at a definite 62 with the rim damage.

Beyond all of that, the weakness in strike is prevalent for the series, which would mean NGC already accounts for that in their grading. So, the grade of 63 is based upon elements exclusive of the weakness. If you remove weakness from the equation, then your coin, given all the other problems, is a 63.

 

Seriously - you guide your purchases based on NGC's price guide? I have coins that I bought that in PCGS and NGC's price guides price out at double what I paid for them but I don't pat my bum saying I got a good deal because some fool in a windowless says that is how much it is worth. I have one that prices deep into five figures in their ridiculous guides but actuality/reality are often different and what the market will bear. I am looking to sell it to finance a colonial Massachusetts Pine Tree shilling but I know the market is not what those perfidious price guides say.

After this experience, I notice they have the coin marked "sold" already - they will probably put the kebash on layaways.

Another fallacy - you think the coin will upgrade from NGC into a PCGS holder - actually the inverse might result - and often does. And why waste your money re-holdering the coin in the first place? It might come back as a MS-63 and you are further sunk, once from the "price guide" price and second from paying to re-holder the coin and not realising what you hoped for.

 

Not quite - by 1799 they had employed Matthew Boulton's steam powered coin presses that made nice round coins with high rims and struck up detail on the 1/2d's.

But I agree with your assertion regarding how the coin will grade - it really is not uncommon in MS-63 - by then there were collectors socking the coins away when they left the mint. It is not the type of coin that one would send in for a re-holder in the first place and expect some big uptick in grade and price.

 

Where on earth are you seeing rim damage?

I said it "might" upgrade. I send stuff to PCGS anyway. I do not like NGC holders, as they obscure part of them rim and seem harder to photograph.

The oxidation, whether or not normal, is preferable. At least in my eyes. Copper can get ugly looking. There might be examples of this coin that are mint red, but I don't like seeing mint red on a 200+ year old coin, it just looks unnatural. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Never the less, as old as this coin is, MS grades are rare. It's hard for such a coin to withstand 200 years of the chance of being worn, drilled, cleaned, or otherwise mutilated.

The scratch is on the slab, you can see the white, which indicates a plastic scratch. It's also out of focus.

 

I agree with you Tim regarding NGC holders - they stink and I bust coins out of them and put them into 5cm x 5cm flips. But don't buy a coin especially in that price range and expect a big uptick in grade and price.

BTW regarding mint red - I have seen mint red 17th century British farthings, and several 18th century Dutch coins that were stored in earthenware that didn't tone. It is actually sort of cool. But with British coins I like a light chocolate colour myself.

 

Scottish...

Price guides are just that, guides.

I got a good deal on it because it was priced below guide. If put in an eBay auction, it would probably sell for what I paid for it.

The problem is many dealers price at or above guide for GB coins. Even though a coin worth $300 in the guide is worth $200 in reality, they use the guide...

Their idea is "Well if the guide says it's worth X, I will price it at X".

This is because there is no greysheet for GB coins, at least not in the states.

Dealers are not going to take there time to dig through eBay auctions to determine a price when they have a guide right there in front of them. Especially if they have a coin inventory of over 100,000 pieces.

Say you saw a really rare coin you liked, and it was priced at guide value, would you buy it?

I liked this piece, and it could've fallen prey to one of the dealers that could in fact priced it at $300.

So in essence, I got a good buy in the fact that I did not have to pay $300 for it.

When I do send it off, I won't be unhappy if it gets MS61, grading is subjective anyway. I do not like NGC's holders.

 

You missed my point, just because you paid less than "price guide" price doesn't mean you got a great deal. I paid considerably less than price guide for a lettered edge 1795 large cent - I don't pat me bum an' think I got a "great deal". Actually I got a very nice coin that I have enjoyed for a few years now but am ready to move along so I can get the Mass. coin - I won't ask "price guide" prices for it - I can see what they are selling for on Heritage, Stacks, Goldbergs etc and price it accordingly. Those price guides are a joke - people that base their purchases on them are thinking inside the box.

I believe it is fairly accurately graded where it is. Why don't you just save your dosh, crack it out(carefully) and put it into a capsule? Remember - buy the coin not the holder.

Good grief, you are going to make me have to kidnap you and totally re-programme your manner of thinking so you will be a real collector and not some peon for windowless minions in grading companies.

 

What do you base your purchases on?

I agree that price guides are a joke, but some coins don't always have a completed auction on eBay.

That 1806 1/2d, for example, there is none that actually sold on eBay. There is an 1807 MS63 that sold for $187.00, but it has a fingerprint on it, and a spot of verdigris above the head.



At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you paid too much or too little, all that matters is if your happy with the coin.

 

First quadrant on the obverse... on the rim.

You say you won't be unhappy, but if it does come back MS61, you'll be posting here complaining about that very thing. As for the discoloration, I wouldn't say that "grey" is a preferable color. It's basically a thin veneer of copper sulfide on the coin's surface. I guess it's a personal preference type of thing, but if I must choose a "brown" version of a copper/bronze coin, I'd opt for the brown over grey, ceteris paribus.

 

So where did the pic of the half penny go ?