Strange UFO coin from 1680 puzzles the experts

I have done a wide research about the subject and not one site gives me any percentages that;s what i would like to see is numbers ,I'm not doubting history about literacy in those times but they don't even mention half the poulation or anything to that nature.


I would like to see some numbers because what I said in the post above if the minority of individuals that had the knowledge to read and write could explain an unknown object in the sky object disc shaped like the one on the coin maybe some kind of spectacular occurance was indeed a UFO.

I will not extend this thread anymore ,but that is my conclusion and theory on the matter. And i'm not demanding anything I'm just trying establish the possiblity that it might indeed be a UFO on the coin .How do you account for a disc shaped object in the sky on a coin in the 15thcentury?

Jazzcoins Joe

 

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Here's some numbers for England in 1600
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~wesmith/214materials.html

 

I think those numbers might be a bit high as an overall...I would say numbers like that were probably for the city...where less people lived. I would say it also matter where...the nobles were more restrictive of what a serf could do in some places making the literacy rate smaller.

Literacy rates in the city at the time were probably close to 20-30% but in the country I bet they remained extremely low. Then again, 1600 is about 400 years after the first Universities began to open so the general literacy rate was probably a bit higher by this time although from all I have read, still only those who were well off attended these schools. Without doubt, before 1100...literacy was probably closer to 1-5 % all around...by 1600, those places with more enlightened rulers and a university close (few and far between) would have higher literacy rates...

In the end though, I highly doubt that coin depicts a UFO.

 

Well thanks alot but that;s one area of the world and that to me is not even a low 40 percentage considering the poupualtion was only two huindred thousand. So you figure about 75 thousand could read or write not bad if I did the math right



So maybe one or two persons happen to see a object disc shaped in the sky and could explain it on paper or a coin What about the rest of the world. I'm not trying to have a verbal war here but GD made claims that more then nearly ninty percent of the world the world was illiterate. Give me a break. I still believe the coin does represent a disc shaped object in the sky

Jazzcoins Joe

 

not the whole world, but Europe during the middle ages...without doubt it was probably close to 90% or more who could not read...like said before, even half the nobles who were ALLOWED to study and learn to read didnt. It amazes me that this seems so unbelievable to you knowing what we know about life back then.

Just wondering, how do you think serfs learned to read? There was no public school and books were very rare...how do you imagine a serf got an education?

 

This is the last time that I will repeat myself with this thread I'm only trying to establish the possiblity that the disc shaped object on the coin is a UFO .

I understand how life was back then but there;s also a possiblity that someone out of the few who had the ablity to read or write happened to encounter a strange disc object in the sky and was able to express themselves on a coin or whatever for that matter, to try and tell us something of a strange sighting You could believe what you believe that's what makes us all unique

Thanks Jazzcoin Joe

 

oh...I think the possibility is slim to none on that matter Not that people did not know how to read and write who made or commissioned coins and medals then...but that its supposed to be a UFO.

 

One last question to you ,do you believe they exsist today in modern time and are an intelligent life form ,and we will end it there?
Jazzcoins Joe

 

I cannot say, I have never seen a shred of proof. I think there must be other life out there, as for it visiting us here, I couldnt say.

As for the coin (it is a jeton), I think it is depicting the ancile, the sacred shield sent from the sky to King Numa by Jupiter. Please read the following from Plutarch's Lives, Volume I:

In the eighth year of Numa's reign an epidemic
raged throughout Italy, and afflicted the city of Rome. Now amidst the
general distress it is related that a brazen shield fell from heaven
into the hands of Numa. Upon this the king made an inspired speech,
which he had learned from Egeria and the Muses. The shield, he said,
came for the salvation of the city, and they must guard it, and make
eleven more like it, so that no thief could steal the one that fell from
heaven, because he could not tell which it was. Moreover the place and
the meadows round about it, where he was wont to converse with the
Muses, must be consecrated to them, and the well by which it was watered
must be pointed out as holy water to the vestal virgins, that they might
daily take some thence to purify and sprinkle their temple. The truth
of this is said to have been proved by the immediate cessation of the
plague. He bade workmen compete in imitating the shield, and, when all
others refused to attempt it, Veturius Mamurius, one of the best workmen
of the time, produced so admirable an imitation, and made all the
shields so exactly alike, that even Numa himself could not tell which
was the original. He next appointed the Salii to guard and keep them.

It was indeed OPPORTVNVS ADEST or 'here at an opportune time' as the shield saved the city from the plague.

A few shields depicted below that look similar:





here is a shield with a matchlock pistol coming out the center carried by the bodyguards of Henry VIII



There is considerable evidence throughout the continent of Europe to show that predominantly round shields made of leather, wood, or wicker, with metal fittings and a metal boss or umbo, were being used from the time of the Bronze Age. Within the Germanic countries particularly, round or slightly oval shields with metal reinforcements were being employed. A variation was made which combined the shield with a weapon of attack: a sharp iron or bronze spike protruding from the center,

Umbo: A boss applied to the center of a shield. Usually made of iron or bronze, the umbo was in use since very early times as a reinforcement and, when appropriately designed, as an offensive device to be used at close quarters. It was generally more or less hemispherical and often supported on a ring base or truncated cone, while many old examples were integrated with a spike protruding from the center. The umbo was secured to the shield by means of metal studs, often placed so as to form decorative motifs. It was sometimes heavily ornamented, especially on parade shields, with engravings and metal laminae molded to produced elaborate designs in relief which were then silvered or gilded. By the late Middle Ages, however, the umbo was gradually disappearing from the shield, but was still occasionally used as a decorative element.

 

The coins we a talking about arre french minted coins you are talking about italian origin and personallyi think there would be no reason for a shield to be hovering over in the sky I don't buy that explaination I read one of the passages you wrote from the sky at a opportune time.

Here's another UFO coin maybe you passed up from the begining of the thread French origin. I would think there were probably many sightings in france at that time maybe that;s why they were trying to depict them on these coins why two coins ,and there are many other coin sdepicting an object in the sky that I didn't post . We could go on an on about this you cannot change my way of thinking about this object on the coin.

Jazzcoins Joe UFO

 

I cant say wether or not I belive, but there are alot of interesting articles out there heres a few; I could post more but I dont want to go to far off topic.

"Another actor and comedian who had some ET experiences was Jackie Gleason – you may know him as the Sheriff in the Smokey and the Bandit films, or as the master pool-player Minnesota Fats in the Paul Newman classic The Hustler. Gleason was a good friend of U.S. President Richard Nixon and, one day, while the two were playing golf together, the subject of UFOs came up. Nixon said little at the time but, later that day; he took Gleason with him on a special visit to Homestead Air Force Base. There, Gleason allegedly witnessed dead extra-terrestrials. Gleason’s wife told the full story in an interview with Esquire magazine."

"
Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter says he saw a UFO while he was the Governor of Virginia. For about ten minutes, he and a group of others watched some weird lights in the sky that seemed to approach them then recede. Carter mentioned the sighting a few times on the campaign trail, and when he was sent a UFO sighting report by a research organisation, agreed to fill it out. While campaigning to become President, Carter promised to reveal all the U.S. government’s UFO secrets if he was elected. He was; but no secrets emerged.
Carter’s successor in the White House, Ronald Reagan, also allegedly saw a UFO while he was the Governor of California. Reagan was travelling in a small plane when he noticed a strange light which seemed to be following the aircraft. The light accelerated a little ahead and, at Reagan’s suggestion, his plane pursued it for a few minutes before it zoomed away vertically at tremendous speed.
Reagan developed an obsession with extra-terrestrials and mentioned them frequently in his speeches. Once, in a speech to the UN, he even said that the United States and the Soviet Union might be forced to make common cause if Earth faced an extra-terrestrial invasion."

 

I know they are French...like I said, they are Jetons...which are Tokens. They are depicting the story King Numa and the shield from heaven, I dont think it could be illustrated for you any clearer...it isnt hovering, it is falling from the heavens...from the sky at a opportune time...in the legend the shield from heaven caused the plague to go away...it is a myth, myths are often used on French and German Jetons, greek, roman, etc...I have one with Minerva depicted on it...a German coin with minerva...is this unbelievable to you? A roman god on a German token? are you saying it is unbelievable to you that a French coin from 1600s is depicting a myth from ancient Rome? During a time of revival of ancient themes?

I give up, if you must think it is a UFO, have fun with it I guess. Its like people are willfully refusing to see what it is. Either that or you are pulling our legs...either way, I dont think there is much else to say, I dont think this could be explained to you any clearer.

 

Just a repost...to make sure it is clear what this coin is showing.

 

Mulder...oops, I mean jazzcoins, what is wrong with you? It's one thing to recognize that there are unexplained things in the universe, but to try to explain them by saying that they are UFOs is stretching things a bit.

You have not provided one shred of proof or evidence that there were UFOs in 1600, let alone in the 21st century. You simply can not just say something incredible is true and expect anyone to believe it. Give us proof and we'll all go along with you. Until then your credibility on the subject is zero.

Why don't you be a little honest with us and yourself and take the time to read this - http://translate.google.com/transla...earch?q=arte+e+ufo&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en It's an explanation of things in art that some (you) believe to be UFOs but which have a logical explanation. It's written by scholars who are not simply guessing or trying to push an agenda.

If you can provide documentation to support your views, please provide references to them. :bigeyes:

 

To be honest whether people could read or not is a moot point...I believe you are simply not even reading the information being posted here. You have drawn a conclusion and you are drawing it with out taking into consideration the very logical and well documented explanations for these things...Have you read the link David posted which explains much of what has been posted here (in terms of art and coins)? Have you seriously given thought to the explanation of the subject of that coin? There are logical explanations for almost everything you posted from the byzantine art work that appears like a space ship (personification of the sun and the moon, a common theme found over and over again in art from the time) to the use of ancient myths on French Jetons.

You seem to just dismiss the fact that there are logical, non-UFO explanations that are common knowledge to those who study history and art from these time...

I am not trying persecute you or insult what you believe, I am not saying there is no such thing as UFOs that have visited earth but I just think you are ascribing this explanation to something that just isn't what you think it is...in essence you are barking up the wrong trees...

I thought you might be pulling our legs simply because of the way you do not even try to address these explanations, as if they aren't being posted...I truly urge you to hit the link David posted and read it...read it carefully...If you still honestly insist on ascribing these things to UFOs, that is, of course, your right. Its is obvious how people look at these things and ascribe them to UFOs but this thread has shown me how they continue to be disseminated even after the real nature of these things are clearly illustrated. Again...I am only talking about the French Jeton and the art work...Take care, good luck, and no hard feelings.

 

Well I have been through the site and read a vast amount about the art work. I coild understand how certain pictures do not depict Ufo's and are explained,but not all of them do explain the true meaning of the photo.

I'm an abstract artist myself. I could interpert some of these pictures as true encounters during that time period . There are some paintings that are not truly explained in detail and what the the nature of the object represents

I understand that the thread is about a jeton coin but my interpetation is a possible close encounter from an individual at that time period and that;s it. I really have enjoyed discussing this with whoever was interested about this thread Thank you very much for all your inputs on this subject

Thanks Jazzcoins Joe

 

"Did Bernard Fontenelle actually meet any Bantu humanoid extraterrestrials or was his paper written on just guessing what they would look like?" [Hardy, Shirley. "Physical Descriptions of Venusians". The Extraterrestrial Data Collection Center, 2010]

Bernard Fontenelle was a French academic who documented his Close Encounter of the 4th Kind (i.e. High Priority) in 1686. In fact, from 1608-1656 (i.e. approximately 30-78 years) before Bernard Fontenelle wrote his most famous Popular Science treatise (i.e. Conversations on the Plurality of Worlds) there were earlier sightings of UFO's and it's occupants sketched in battle on numerous art paintings and/or hovering over the countryside e.t.c.; yet, in particular the space ship that these Bantu humanoid type aliens arrived in was engraved on a French coin (i.e. 16th Century French UFO Commemorative Medal) minted in the same French nation to commemorate this event.

"After decades of seeking possible answers about a mysterious UFO like design on a 17th century French copper coin a prominent Numismatic expert says it remains just that (i.e. an unidentified flying object). It was made in the 1680s France and the design on one side certainly looks like it could be a flying saucer in the clouds over the countryside". [NICAP. "Centuries Old UFO Coin Remains Mystery". National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomenon, 2005]

As a former Field Investigator of Mutual UFO Network I can only speculate that Bernard Fontenelle experienced a UFO sighting of high priority. This was a Close Encounter of the 4th Kind (i.e. Category 4) in 1686 France. The descriptions and details throughout the text (i.e. Conversations on The Plurality of Worlds) is too observational and direct to be shrugged off as "innocent writings" [End Quote] e.t.c. In our popular age of Absolute Skepticism it has become fashionable to simply write off Bernard Fontenelle and his UFO experience as "speculations and/or scientific literature of guesses and hypothesis" [End Quote]. I am inclined to believe (i.e. based upon the eye witness accounts throughout the text) that Bernard Fontenelle information; therefore, was accumulated through personal direct contact with black Bantu aliens from Venus and Mercury.

 

Ah, Jazz Coin Joe and UFO's. Thanks for bringing back the memories from when I first started following this forum. Jazz was always good for a chuckle and UFO's on coins only command a premium if they are off metal strikes.