Coin Grading Companies

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by coinked, Feb 22, 2006.

  1. coinked

    coinked New Member

    A while ago I bought a coin graded PR70 by SGS. What I was told later by some coin collectors was that SGS over grades their coins. If so, how bad did I get bit? Fortunately the entire cost including shipping was only $19.00. Thoughts? Also, what about PNGS as a grading company? Thanks for any advise.
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  3. Midas

    Midas Coin Hoarder

    Do a search within Coin Talk regarding SGS and you will be amazed.

    BTW...SGS is NOT a grading company. They are marketing and packaging for their eBay powerseller Aboncom who sells their own "graded" coins. There is nothing 3rd partied about SGS.
  4. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator

    PNGS is a terrible grading company. Stick with coins graded by PCGS, NGC, ANACS, and ICG, unless you know how to grade yourself, very well at that.
  5. The_Cave_Troll

    The_Cave_Troll The Coin Troll Moderator

    PNGS is in the same category.


    There are 4 respected grading companies. They are (in alpebetical order) ANACS, ICG, NGC, and PCGS. The only caveat among them is that ICG tends to allow too many coins into the MS/PF 68, 69, and 70 grades, so be careful when purchasing the perfect, or nearly so, coins from them.

    Those 4 companies are quite good, but not perfect, so you need to be able to grade to confidently buy a coin in their plastic, just so that you can confirm that they got the grade right.

    Any coin that is slabbed by anyone else should be treated as if it is raw. You MUST be able to grade to make sure that you are buying what you intend to buy, because the grades on the other slabes may, or more likely may not, be correct.

    P.S. The business strike coins that I have seen from an SGS 70 slab have all been in the ms62-ms64 range. The only SGS coin I ever bought was a 1991S Lincoln Cent in an SGS PF70. I got it a number of years back expecting an average grade proof. I think the coin I recieved would probably grade PF 66/67 if sent to a reputable grading firm. I knew what i wanted and I knew that what they were offering was what i was after, so I am happy with my purchase, but I also paid a pittance for it. Be careful with SGS, they are one of the sharks in the eBay waters!
  6. dgoose50

    dgoose50 New Member

    Be Thankful That It Was A Cheap Lesson To Learn.stick With Ngc Or Pcgs.there Are Many Grading Services That Try To Pattern Their Initials To Resemble Them ,but They Are The Two Primary Services.
  7. rujam

    rujam New Member

    I wouldn't have an SGS coin unless it was given to me. Believe me I have been burned by a couple of Grading services, but then other times not by the service ( because the slab was right on ) but by the < o.k. i will try to spell it> detereoration:whistle: of the coin while in the slab. Mind you the folks I purchased the coins from probably knew this, and thats why they were selling them on Ebay. I read something very interesting recently about the 10 Myths of Slabs. Check it out

    http://www.pocketchangelottery.com/article108.htm
  8. Burks

    Burks New Member

    There are only a handful of companies I trust. ANACS and NGC being my top two. PCGS is slowing losing my respect.

    Most of the stuff I've seen in PCI (old) and ICG really haven't been graded too badly. I've seen obvious 67's in 69 holders but you buy the COIN not the slab.
  9. dcarr

    dcarr Member

    Have you seen what NGC and PCGS have been doing lately on modern MS-69s ? I've been very dissapointed with what I've seen in the last couple years. I think they're banging them out at a high rate. The ICGs still seem reasonably well-graded from what I've seen. I wouldn't buy and NGC or PCGS MS/PR 69/70 without examining it in person first. I have the luxury of spending several minutes to grade each coin I look at. Most of the time, graders at the grading services do not have that luxury. More time = better grading.
  10. SapperNurse

    SapperNurse DOD enhanced

    Burks spoke a worl od truth by sayign buy the coin not the slab. I made some mistakes with Galery Grading Company when I was a new ebayer. I have heard local collectors here say they wouldnt trust anyone other than PCGS or NGC also, not even crediting ANACS or IGC. And Personally, I have seen some beautiful coins from UGS. I have yet to send any in to them for grading/slabbing, but at 1/3 the price of PCGS, it is a consideration.
  11. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    From a limited number of modern commemorative slabs I've seen and own, an ANACS 66-67 looks a lot like an NGC or PCGS 69. ANACS seems very tough at handing out the highest grades.
  12. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    What was the coin??....I mean like Cent or dime etc....and what was the date?

    Now I don't like SGS...but they really are a grading co...just not a TPG---they will let other people send in coins to get graded....they do use other grades than PF/MS70 and they go by some set of grading guide...I don't know what one---
    I know what you meant and I agree....but to be total right...they are.

    If your going to buy coins stay with:
    NGC/PCGS/ANACS and when you can grade better you might even want to look at ICG or PCI.

    I don't like ICG for the reasons stated above...the past President of ICG came out and said out of his own mouth that they tend to overgrade--
    PCI isn't the best now but they used to be pretty good...

    As for UGS....sure you might see some good coins in them....and they might be cheaper...but please never send coins to them.
    If you ever need to sell you will only get 1/3 of the real value of your coin.....
    It is best to stay with the best even though they are higher.
    Every grading Co--good or not---has some good coins in their slabs....and you can find them IF YOU LOOK...but I would suggest that you never buy an off brand slab untill you #1 know how to grade....and #2 can see the coin IN HAND.

    Speedy
  13. Midas

    Midas Coin Hoarder

    Let's get this straight...

    SGS is NOT a grading company!! When you take bank rolls, pick out the "pretty ones" and put them into YOUR OWN plastic with gold foil tape, it is not grading. It is simply marketing and packaging...nothing more. PLEASE...let's call SGS for what they are. Hence one of the reasons why SGS is NOT listed under the grey sheets:

    http://www.greysheet.com/

    What SGS is doing is no differant than putting a gold foil on a bottle of beer and now calling it a "master brew". You still get beer, as bad as it may be, but the gold foil makes the buyer believe it is something special, when it is NOT!!

    Remember this...the major seller of SGS coins is the very eBay powerseller that sells SGS packaged coins! Consider the following...

    Do a search of who owns SGS and Aboncon and you get:

    Registrant Name:Larry Bence
    Registrant Organization:Star Grading Service
    Registrant Street1:115 Park Ave West
    Registrant Street2:
    Registrant Street3:
    Registrant City:Mansfield
    Registrant State/Province:OH
    Registrant Postal Code:44902
    Registrant Country:US
    Registrant Phone:+1.4195225346 Registrant Phone Ext.:120
    Registrant FAX:+1.4195226379
    Registrant FAX Ext.:
    Registrant Email:lbence@abon.com

    For www.abon.com information, you have to go through directNIC and you get:

    Registrant:

    Abon Limited
    115 Park Ave. West
    Mansfield, OH 44902
    US
    419-522-5346

    Calling SGS a grading company is not correct...PERIOD

    Stick with ANACS, ICG, PCGS and NGC...or you will be sorry if you are buying "sight-unseen" coins.

    After all, companies like SGS are betting you will buy/bid their coins without seeing them first.

    Why do you think all of these so-called "grading" companies exist solely on internet auction sites like eBay, but you will hardly ever see them at coin shows and you will NEVER see them in reputible auction houses like Heritage, Bowers & Merena, and Teletrade??

    Answer that question and you will save yourself a lot of headaches and lighter wallets!
  14. coinked

    coinked New Member

    "What was the coin??....I mean like Cent or dime etc....and what was the date?"

    The coin was a 1960 small date penny. What really got me was the shipping charge. They charged over $9.00 to ship out one penny!!! The problem is you don't find out the shipping charge until you have won the item. You know what they say, "live and learn". I've now learned.
  15. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    Midas
    Tell me one thing....what do you define as a grading co....if you were going to start one today...what would have need to have to have to be called a grading Co.?

    A grading Co. is a company that accepts submissions from collectors.
    A grading Co. grades coins by some set of rules or standers (Since there is no ONE set of rules we can't say that just becuase they don't use the ANA grading guide they aren't good.)
    A grading Co. asignes a grade to a coin for the consdison the coin is in by their standers.

    Now that is what most people go by...and SGS does all of that.
    A grading Co. doesn't have to put them in slabs or seal the slabs with high pitched sound....they can pick coins out of rolls if they want.

    The Gray sheet doesn't list alot of Co......there is a whole lot of "grading Co" that the gray sheet never list...and for good reasons.
    But they also list Co. like SEGS and NCI and INS....they are just as bad---do you call THEM grading Co.??

    You ask why they don't show up at shows....becauses they wouldn't be welcome #1....
    I really don't like SGS...and I'm not standing up for them....but I'm bring up this point because no one ever thinks of this.
    Heritage and Teletrade more than likely would either reslab the coins....or sell the coins raw like they do sometimes.

    People need to be worned about SGS and other grading Co. that overgrade coins---but I think we need to post the truth here...they do grade coins....but they just don't grade them accoring to standers that the hobby recognizes at this time (and we hope NEVER!)

    Yep---the shipping was high...and I would have reported it to Ebay as posting gouging <sp?>
    But what done is done...be glad you learned a cheap leason!!!

    Speedy
  16. XpipedreamR

    XpipedreamR New Member




    Do you have a reference for this? I would tend to agree, but I'd like to see where it came from. Very interesting.
  17. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    I think it was a member named Zachgold that posted it....he met with James Taylor many times when he was at ICG....I think it is posted right here on CT....

    Speedy
  18. Midas

    Midas Coin Hoarder

    Look...just because you sell loose change found in your dresser draw to somebody on the streets, that doesn't make you a "dealer" in the true and spirited definition of the word.

    With that said, if I write AU55 or XF40 on a 2x2 and sell it to some sap and tell him it was independently graded, that doesn't warrant or define me as a grading company either. I could even state I take submissions and go so far to actually grade a coin or two. If any submissions I do receive add up to, .0000001% of all the coins that were sold under my "grading" label, you could call me and anybody else for that matter a "grading company"...but let's not get boiled down in syntax.

    SGS aka Star Grading Service is just an eBay powerseller owned by Larry Bence who owns Aboncom who in turn sells of these marketed and packaged coins to unsuspecting buyers who REALLY think they are getting a third-partied graded coin.

    If you want to get all hot and bothered about the definition of "grading" and "company", then you are right. But let's call a spade a spade and make sure newbies know who SGS and Aboncom really are before they bid or purchase these coins.

    If the facts don't bother them, you know what they say...a fool and his money will soon depart from one another.
  19. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    Hey Midas
    I'm not hot and bothered....I'm just trying to find out if 2+2 really =4....some things in this thread didn't add up.....
    I'm all for telling people that SGS overgrades and not to buy....but I'm also not going to put my foot in my mouth and say something is isn't right.

    Sorry if I sounded hot ;)
    And I could take that the wrong way....but I think I know how you meant it.......

    Speedy
  20. satootoko

    satootoko Retired

    Pardon me if I think all the flap about "what is a grading company" is missing the point here.

    Argue all you want to about whether SGS is a "grading company", but it's clearly not a TPG. When the same person owns the grader and the seller, where's the Third Party Grader[​IMG]
  21. Midas

    Midas Coin Hoarder

    Speedy...I was NOT referring to you. I was referring to those people that are already aware of the circumstances of SGS and Aboncom. After all that...if they buy...they are a FOOL in my book.

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