Business Strike vs. Satin Finish

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Mr. Coin, Jul 26, 2012.

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  1. Mr. Coin

    Mr. Coin Member

    I'm sure some folks are blocking out bad memories on this topic, but if you could bear with me. What are peoples thoughts on long term value of each? I have not tended to want to go through the effort of getting business strike coins from 2005-10. But it seems that high grade business strike examples from this time period will probably eventually be pretty valuable, at least relative to other modern issues. So now I'm rethinking my earlier position.
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  3. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    I put together a complete Lincoln cent satin set. I wasn't looking to profit in the future, it was just an element missing from my "complete" Lincoln collection. The mintages are rather low so they might see some price appreciation in the future. Here's a few examples based on uncirculated mint set sales:
    • Year 2005
    • Mintage 1,160,000
    • Issue Price $16.95
    • Coins 22
    • Year 2006
    • Mintage 847,361
    • Issue Price $16.95
    • Coins 20
    • Year 2007
    • Mintage 649,076
    • Issue Price $22.95
    • Coins 28
    • Year 2008
    • Mintage 663,136
    • Issue Price $22.95
    • Coins28
    2009 mint uncirculated set - 735,756
  4. statequarterguy

    statequarterguy Love Pucks

    Don't forget to add the 2010 Satin Cent for a complete collection of Satins. Also, if those mintages are from the "Red Book", they don't match sales reported. Do you know if the Red Book will be updated or have reported sales been updated?

    I for one, feel the satins will be a winner down the road, as their mintages are miniscule compared to business strikes regardless of the condition rarity fad.

    In addition to the cents, I’m hoarding Satin Quarters as they’re part of maybe the most collected series (State & Parks Quarters). Since Satins haven’t really caught on yet, they can be picked up for not much more than face value.
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Hard to say what will happen to long term values of the satin coins. For one thing they are much like Proof sets in that they were specially made, they are not business strikes. So mintage numbers will likely have little impact if any. I expect their values will probably be very similar to same date Proof examples.

    Business strikes (from this period) on the other hand will be like business strikes always have been. High grade examples (67 and up) are tough to find so they will no doubt draw premiums. But even those premiums may well be impacted as time goes on as more and more people become aware of changes (loosening) in TPG grading standards.

    Either way, I don't think any of us will ever see the point where moderns are worth big bucks in our lifetimes. But a 100 years from now it might well happen.
  6. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    I ripped them from the web....I don't know how accurate they are.
  7. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball Cannot Re-Member

    I think that some of you are placing too much emphasis on the mintage rather than the scarcity of certain coins in higher grades. The fact is that many of the higher graded business strikes used to come from the Mint Sets, and now they can only be found in the circulation bags & rolls. If you look at the NGC Census just for the 2005 SQ's, you will find a huge disparity in availability between MS & SMS in MS68/MS69/MS70:

    2005-P CA MS: 14/3/0
    2005-P CA SMS: 306/307/1

    2005-D CA MS: 14/0/0
    2005-D CA SMS: 260/240/0

    2005-P MN MS: 0/0/0
    2005-P MN SMS: 228/638/3

    2005-D MN MS: 16/1/0
    2005-D MN SMS: 279/487/0

    2005-P OR MS: 0/0/0
    2005-P OR SMS: 263/681/1

    2005-D OR MS: 12/0/0
    2005-D OR SMS: 260/500/0

    2005-P KS MS: 0/0/0
    2005-P KS SMS: 215/169/0

    2005-D KS MS: 4/0/0
    2005-D KS SMS: 280/364/0

    2005-P WV MS: 0/0/0
    2005-P WV SMS: 275/356/0

    2005-D WV MS: 6/2/0
    2005-D WV SMS: 268/153/0

    In this year alone, a mere 72 business strikes were graded MS68 or better as opposed to 6534 satin finish graded MS68 or better. I think you will find that similar numbers will probably exist for the other denominations and subsequent years.

    You also have to realize that most collectors prior to the introduction of the satin finish will want to continue searching for the business strikes to maintain a uniformity in their collections. Unfortunately, the satin finish coins were a short-lived "fantasy" that proved to be a considerable and unnecessary expense for the US Mint. I really don't see the satin finish coins increasing in value in any of our lifetimes.

    Chris
  8. Mr. Coin

    Mr. Coin Member

    Cpm9ball is thinking the same way I am. Basically, mint sets were a huge source I supply for high grade coins that doesn't exist for that period.
  9. LindeDad

    LindeDad His Walker.

    Actually the Business Strike coins in high grade might be the winner. Most went into circulation and nobody saves them. Mint sets are packaged better for survival and a lot are going to be around for a long time. I know the BS PCGS certified coins sure cost more than the satin's when I was building my 1969 to present mint set that I gave up on in 2010.
  10. kidkayt

    kidkayt Senior Member

    I may be in the minority but I like the satin finish sets. In particular I purchased several of the Uncirc. sets form 2009 which had the bronze satin finish cents. I'm not worried about the appreciation - I just like the unique combination.
  11. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball Cannot Re-Member

    There is nothing wrong with liking the look of them as long as you're not collecting them for future appreciation (at least in your lifetime). When they were first released in 2005, I bought 2 dozen sets. I broke every set apart looking for high grades to submit, and there were so many "perfect" coins (I triple-checked every one with my stereomicroscope) that I knew it would be foolish to submit them for grading.

    Chris
  12. Phil Ham

    Phil Ham Hamster Supporter

    I think that the 2009 nickel and dime business strikes will have some value. I still haven't found 3 of the 4 in circulation.
  13. statequarterguy

    statequarterguy Love Pucks

    Which is why with Satins you have to adjust your collecting/speculation up to grade 69’s or 70’s. Grade 68’s are also fine to collect, but populations should be compared to average grade business strikes. Satins are unique coins, similar to matte proofs, so as was mentioned, Satins will be priced similar to proofs. If this happens, remember the Satin mintages are much lower than regular proofs and closer to silver proofs. I know some collectors love those high grade, high mintage coins, but others love high grade, low mintage coins - I fall into the later group. We know the tried and true market for low mintage coins demands significant premiums for any grade. Time will tell if the TPG’er created market for high grade, high mintage coins holds.
  14. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Well-Known Member

    Business strike vs. Satin finish

    Well, I'll take a 1964 Satin A019 - 20121021_171157 (2).jpg A021 - 20121021_171454 (2).jpg over a 1964 business strike any-day A001 - 20121021_173914 (2).jpg A002 - 20121021_173957 (2).jpg :yes:
  15. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Come again?
  16. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Well-Known Member

    3,400.00 hundred vs 8.00 dollars and if your lucky you could have this 1964-D satin priceless A005 - 20121021_172048 (2).jpg A006 - 20121021_172220 (2).jpg
  17. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball Cannot Re-Member

  18. Cochisz

    Cochisz Chief coin collector

  19. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Well-Known Member

    so they say, but i think not ! the mints does lots of things, just have to be at the right place, at the right time ! the mint sell lots of things to the right people, not me, i'm talking about my dad ! check out this 1963-D satin ! remember 1963 was the year theses satins planchets came to the mint A007 - 20121021_172833 (2).jpg A008 - 20121021_172948 (2).jpg
  20. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball Cannot Re-Member

    You're going to have to show me the documentation.

    Chris
  21. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Well-Known Member

    i'm taking them to the pcgs show in vegas, in feb. of 2013 !
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