Bird countermark on 1907 Brazil 500 reis

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Numismat, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    This was a recent eBay pickup. Probably paid more than it may actually be worth, but I sometimes splurge on interesting items.
    The auction described it as a dove countermark, but I suppose it can be any of a number of birds.
    Doesn't really show due to flash, but the tone/patina and surface appearance is consistent between the incuse area and the rest of the coin so I do not believe it to be a modern punch.
    Opinions?

    [​IMG]

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  3. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    well, I like it.
     
  4. BRandM

    BRandM Counterstamp Collector

    I saw that on eBay Numismat and thought about bidding on it for the same reason as you...I like it and it was interesting. It does look period to the coin. Unfortunately, I've never seen another like it.

    Bruce
     
  5. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    I think i may have a lead on which direction to research. Someone on another forum referenced these pieces: http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=26087.0

    Apparently they were countermarks made by missionaries on obsolete Brazilian coins which were given to the poor. Mine looks different than the ones in the reference post, but same idea and it does mention that the punches used varied by who made them.

    I'm starting to think my little gamble was worth it, knowledge wise at the very least :)
     
  6. BRandM

    BRandM Counterstamp Collector

    Thanks for the link Numismat.

    The late Russ Rulau issued a comprehensive catalog on Latin American tokens, including counterstamps (1992?). He had great interest in these issues and actually had a wonderful collection, parts of which were recently sold by Steve Hayden. I don't have a copy because I never had a particular interest in Latin American tokens, but I think you should be able to pick up one fairly cheaply online.

    I looked through my Brunk book carefully and he has some interesting coumments in general about Brazilian counterstamps and in particular about the ones your link referenced. This is what he wrote in his section on Brazilian counterstamps.

    RELIGIOUS FESTIVALS
    Minas Gerais

    These countermarked coins were distributed to poor people at the Festivals of the Holy Spirit in Sabara, Santa Luzia, Congonhas, Sao Joao d'el Rey, and other cities in Minas Gerais. They were similar to the Maundy coins of England. Two different types of doves appear in the illustrated counterstamps. Prober (1966: 154) notes that counterfeits exist consisting of the outline of a dove.

    Dove Surrounded by Rays (ETC-12)
    Dove / Junho 4 De 1911 J.L.M. (L-39)

    The illustration he provides look very much like the ones that are shown in the link you provided. I don't know if yours might be one of the counterfeits that Prober has documented or not because he describes it as the "outline" of a dove. Yours is a full dove stamp. In the reference section of his book Brunk lists this for Prober.

    Prober, Kurt Moedas Brasileiras (1966)

    I assume this is a book written by this man so you might want to check it out. I believe Prober also has a lot of information, and perhaps illustrations, of Brazilian fazenda tokens.

    Good luck Numismat and keep us up to date on your findings.

    Bruce
     
  7. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    Thanks so much, I sure will! I do own a copy of the Rulau book and will have to double check if there is a section on Brazilian pieces, though I do not recall seeing any.
    Thanks as always for your help and insight.
     
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