1980 Cent DD?

is this a DD? also will all double dies be the same thickness as the original?
because I see DD's on wexler's site and other sites and not all of them are the
same thickness.

 

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MD.

 

Thanks

 

Tommy, with a true DD of a pre- 'single squeeze' hubbing, the thickness may be very slightly different from the first hubbing, but closer to the same as the process was repeated in order to get a properly sunk die ( the movement was suppose to be the same for each time ) . Look at the thickness of the MDD you show, and then reverse it in your mind so the overlap is that far from the top of the original rather than from the bottom, and you will have an idea of what I am talking about. I have seen DD with lesser elevation, but that is when split serifs can verify it .

 

thanks! although I read a bunch on it I think personally this is the hardest error to
distinguish especially for a beginner like myself.

 

Look at this 1909 DDO, it could be confused with MMD by most.... IF one did not notice the notching of the serifs (ends) of the "1" in the date and some of the letters in LIBERTY.

http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/1909/1909p1do001m.jpg

 

ok so all DD have serifs?

 

With the exception of most class VI (extra thickness) doubled dies, you will pretty much always see either notching, split serifs, or both on a doubled die.

 

I don't understand that post tom, what were you trying to say?

 

I want to add a little bit to this. Sometimes a coin is a doubled die but the die that struck the coin is in such a late die state that the split serifs are not really visible on the coins. In fact, any grooves or split serifs are sometimes difficult to find any evidence of on some true Doubled dies.

I am thinking of late die state Kennedy half doubled dies, for example. The details are so flattened on the die that the only way to tell it is a doubled die is to be familiar with the appearance or "footprint" so to speak of , let's say the word TRUST on an earlier die state strike. Then you compare the "footprints" to figure out that a late die state coin is actually a doubled die.

A lot depends on the spread of the doubling on a particular DDO variety as to whether or not you can see notches, grooves or split serifs on later die state coins.

 

are You talking about the Kennedy Half Dollars like this one? could this be a DD?

 

No not a doubled die

 

this is what foundinrolls wrote:

I am thinking of late die state Kennedy half doubled dies, for example. The details are so flattened on the die that the only way to tell it is a doubled die is to be familiar with the appearance or "footprint" so to speak of , let's say the word TRUST on an earlier die state strike. Then you compare the "footprints" to figure out that a late die state coin is actually a doubled die.

Im also reading something on this right now..

 

I'm thinking you may be trying to learn about error coins too fast. It takes lots of time and plenty of studying coins to be able to spot the difference between doubled die and MD coins. when you learn to tell the difference you will know soon as you look at a coin if it's a keeper or not.

almost everyone when they first start out collecting thinks everything is a doubled die and has to get rid of the spenders when they learn more about errors.

 

I hear what You saying Im just checking to make sure.

 

that's the way to learn , I like to see folks get interested in coins. I have enjoyed the coin hobby for close to 50 years.

 

THe Kennedy you posted appears to have another case of mechanical doubling.

 

The Kennedy half exhibits machine doubling.

 

OK, I put this together kinda quick to show you what I mean.

First, you have to be certain of what a particular doubled die looks like, whichever one it is. On Kennedys for example, there are Doubled dies (some on obverses, some on reverses, some on both) for almost every date and mint mark combination that I can think of from 1964 to 1977. There are others after that but they are less frequently encountered.

I used the relatively well known 1974 D Obverse DDO Kennedy Half for this example.

If you look at the image below, you can see the same area duplicated three times with each image being of a different coin and showing different states of die wear and/or circulation wear.

The top coin shows an early die state uncirculated piece. On early die state pieces, the details are rounded and the separations (grooves) can easily be seen between the doubled details.

The second coin shows a coin that has been struck with the die showing evidence of die wear, also known as a later die state strike. The coin also has some effect of circulation wear. You can see that the grooves are becoming less evident since the raised lines on the die that creates the grooves on the struck coins is wearing out on the die.

The third coin in the image is one that has been struck by a very late state die. There is also heavy circulation wear. There are almost no grooves visible.

I am not going into other things like "notches" at this point because I can teach this point by just using the grooves or the lack thereof.

Now, what I am talking about when I use the term "footprint" , (that's my own term for it) is that even in the different die states or points of wear, if you compare the upper picture to the pictures below it, you can see that even minus the grooves, the shape of the lettering is the same. They take up the same space on each coin. They are misshapen in the same way. The lower coins just show less of the details that would easily indicate that the coin is a doubled die.

If you look at the images you posted above of machine doubling, The letters are cut and scraped by the die. Basically, the metal is pushed around to cause the appearance of doubling. But it is just damage to the surface of the coin caused by die movement during the strike. Whereas a doubled die has the doubling added to the coin by the details actually having been doubled on the die itself.

Here's the image: