The NGC "T" & "W" Designations--The Lost Designations

Most certified coin collectors are aware of the NGC star designation which is used for coins with exceptional eye appeal or coins that just miss CAMEO, DEEP CAMEO, PL, or DMPL status. The following link will explain more about the NGC star designation which NGC unveiled in June 2000: PLUS AND STAR DESIGNATIONS

What most collectors don't know is that just prior to the introduction of the star designation in the early part of 2000, NGC introduced two designations designed to inform the buyer that the coin was completely toned "T" or completely untoned "W". Unfortunately these designations were not widely accepted by the numismatic community and were discontinued on 8/1/2002, see link to NGC announcement: NGC TO DISCONTINUE "W" DESIGNATION

Since the designations were only used for 2.5 years and were discontinued a decade ago, it stands to reason that many collectors might have never seen or heard of a coin bearing either of these designations. I don't know whether these designations by themselves drive a premium but in my experience, they are exceedingly rare. In fact, I only own one "W" and two "T" coins. The "T" designation was used on almost all of the Appalachian Jefferson Nickels which were also slabbed in the NGC generation 8 holder that was only used for a 4 week period spanning August-September of 2000. Here is an example:



The "W" designation was very problematic in that it represented a completely untoned coin at the time of encapsulation but became inaccurate if the coin developed minor toning after encapsulation. The following is an example of a coin that was completely untoned when graded "W" designation as well as having exceptional eye appeal and a "*" designation. Close inspection of the photo reveals that the coin has developed some minor champagne toning on both sides since being graded.




Over the years, collectors have had many of their coins re-holdered for various reasons. Those reasons are not important but what is important is that once you send a coin in for re-holdering, it is NGC's policy to remove any discontinued designations from the label of the coin. However, NGC will not change the certification number which keeps the original submission number intact. As I stated previously in this thread, most all of the Appalachian Jefferson Nickels were graded in early September of 2000 during the use of the generation 8 slab. The known submission numbers of the Appalachian hoard are: 291239-xxx, 291240-xxx, 291279-xxx, 291281-xxx. We can see that the first Appalachian posted in this thread resides in a generation 8 slab with a "T" designation and the certification number 291240-xxx. Here is another coin from the same submission that was reholdered and resides in a NGC generation 17 holder which started in November 2004. Please note that the "T" designation has been removed.



Fortunately from time to time, NGC makes mistakes like everyone else. This coin was resubmitted by the monsterman, Gregg Bingham, who had his pedigree added to the label while it was re-holdered. The NGC employee making the label for the coin forgot to remove the "T" designation and this might be the only coin to reside in a generation 17 slab to bear a "T" designation. And it rightly bears a "*" designation for exceptional eye appeal as well.



Several members have contacted me asking for more information on this topic, I hope that you have found this post informative and interesting!

 

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Excellent write-up and explanation.

 

Thanks for posting the information and great coins.

I have no slabs with either the W or T designations.

 

I have a handful of coins with these designations. My observations have been the following:

1) The "T" designation is much rarer than the "W" designation.

2) I have never seen the "W" or "T" designation noted on a half dollar or dollar coin. I have only ever seen them noted on Jefferson Nickels, Roosevelt Dimes, and Washington Quarters. I'm not saying that they were not used on those issues, but for about 2 years of watching on eBay and Teletrade, I haven't run across one.

3) On the state quarters from 1999-2001 the "W" designation is not all that difficult to find -- possibly even could be described as "common".

 

Thanks for taking the time to post this, Paul.

I can only recall seeing one of the T slabs and that was about 7 years ago at FUN.

Chris

 

Another great thread to bookmark!
Had always wondered about those designations...

 

hmmm thanks for educating As a relatively young collector who has been in the loop for about 6, 7, 8 years I never knew this (ironic because I really like the older generation holders) I can see why NGC would discontinue it...just imagine a 1880-S Morgan with the label reading MS-65PL*+T phew thats a lot for a small holder

 

This is an old picture (sorry for the quality), but I bought this coin because of the curious holder / grade / and "W" designation.

1) The holder is the NGC 8.1 (Label of NGC 7, hologram of the NGC 8) used from approximately Sept 2000 - July 2001.

2) The grade is PF70 Cameo, but not Ultra Cameo. The year 2001 clad dimes were an anomaly for non ultra-cameo dimes (see line chart below). In fact, more than 20% of all NGC graded 2001-S dimes were not given the Ultra Cameo designation. This was certainly an outlier in modern times.

3) The "W" designation on a proof coin is not common. In fact, this is the only one I have seen, but I'm sure there are probably others.

 

Excellent information and some great photos as well.
Thanks for sharing as always.

I have seen the "W" designation on a holder once or twice but never the "T" designation.

 

Great write up Lehigh. I have heard of these before and always thought it would be cool to find a coin I liked in one of these unique slabs. Who knows, maybe someday I will.

 

Great write up Paul. Here are my two examples: (The T's a NGC 8, the W's a NGC 9).




Funny enough the "T" designated coin is about as white as the "W" coin, maybe slightly duller, but white nonetheless. From what I've heard the two designations weren't too consistent (or clear) and that was one of the main reasons they weren't popular with collectors (like Lehigh noted).

 

I don't think that I have ever seen one in hand with either T or a W.

 

That's interesting. I wonder if they gave it a "T" in error when they intended to give it a "W."

 

Found a few more Appalachian Jefferson Nickels with "T" designations in the Heritage Archives:





If you ever have a chance to see one of these coins in person, they blow the photos away. They really are some of the most spectacularly toned coins I have ever seen.

 

And how would you like to have gotten this submission back from NGC. The current population (June 2012) of the 1942-D in MS67 6FS is 14/0. This guy had two graded in one submission with consecutive certification numbers and both with a "W" designation in 2000, WOW!

 

I actually bid on this Washington Quarter a few years ago. One of the most striking untoned coins that I can recall and a superb type coin.

 

Seems there was a little confusion with the application of the "T" designation at NGC! Did you get that memo? Yeah, we are using a new cover sheet on the TPS reports and only fully toned coins get the "T" designation.

 

That coin is amazing. Did you end up winning?

 

I actually never ended up bidding because I spent too much on other coins that auction. I did however run a contest about this coin. For anyone interested in a stroll down memory lane!


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