Zeus Goes to the Olympics

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Theodosius, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    Here is my first coin of 2017, an Elis Stater featuring Zeus. This was found for me through the efforts of John Anthony and the very first coin dealer I bought an ancient coin from, Fred Shore. Seltman lists three examples of this coin, including one sold by Sotheby in May 1908, which they list had an obverse die flaw on Zeus's nose. This coin has the same flaw and could be the 1908 coin.

    Anyone have Sotheby's May 1908 catalog? Bing would have been a young man back then so maybe he misplaced it in the years since. :)

    Elis Stater 4a.jpg

    Elis, Olympia, AR Stater 11.39 gm, 271-191 BC
    Obverse: Head of Zeus right, bearded, long hair, eye staring ahead, wreath with two rows of small, pointed laurel leaves around head.
    Reverse: Eagle standing right, wings folded, three rows of feathers, tail down. Serpent raising up, coiled once, tail at eagle's claw left. In field left, broad vertical thunderbolt, flame dart between volutes at each end. Shallow circular incuse.
    Seltman 232, three examples recorded.

    John
     
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  3. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Very attractive coin.

    What made you seek out that particular coin? Does it fit into a set you are building, or was there something about it that you really wanted? Obviously, super rare is cool.
     
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  4. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I love how the devices are well-situated on the flan, great coin! Here is a bit of provenance: it sold in Roma eSale 10, lot 132 in 2014. Here is the listing with a terrible, washed-out photograph. Your pic is far superior.

    It would seem that Zeus' nose has been repaired and the coin has been cleaned up a bit more since it sold in 2014. I approve of the conservation - it's expertly rendered.

    As for earlier provenance, I'll see what I can do...
     
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  5. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    I don't know that the nose has been repaired. Upon close examination of the photos I think it is just a spot that was dinged up and the ROMA photos didn't do it any favors.
     
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  6. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I also thought that might be the case. Man, that's a crappy photo. Sometimes I wonder how some online dealers sell any coins at all.
     
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  7. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    As to why I wanted this coin, when I first learned that particular coins were made in conjunction with the Olympic games, I thought it was really amazing. I also learned that many are found in very worn condition with the speculation that athletes and spectators may only go to the games once or twice, so they would get a coin from their trip and carry it with them for years afterwards causing the extensive wear. The stories these coins could tell...

    The style of most of these coins is also very bold and artistic. This is a later coin whose style is not quite up to the earlier ones but still good. There are quite a few variations of Elis staters but all of them are pretty rare. When I was a younger collector a dealer told there was a European collector who basically bought anything from Elis on the market. Until he died it was very hard to find any. Maybe that is partly a mythical story and the rise of the Internet is the real reason you can find these now, but I only saw a few in my early collecting days, and none that I could afford.
     
  8. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    That's awesome, Theodosius ... I still need a cool Olympic example (congrats)
     
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  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Wonderful wonderful Stater @Theodosius ! Great find and capture.
     
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  10. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    Maybe someone had access to an alternate picture? I know I've bought coins before that I would not have bought had I not found photos from previous auctions or previous collectors' photos. But I wouldn't buy it from the ROMA photo myself. I'd absolutely buy it from Theo's photo.
     
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  11. Prokles

    Prokles Well-Known Member

    Great coin! congrats!
    This is the entry in the Seltamn:

    upload_2017-1-5_11-15-14.png

    As you see, the specimen of Sotheby 1908 has a double-struck reverse which is not the case of yours. However, there is still the one of the Rollin & Feuardent sale that has also a flaw at nose level (but without date or sales n° it will be hard to track).
    In any case, a very desiderable coin!

    Your pic is also very nice (unlike the one of Roma. Please also note the 1,44 g for a stater in their description!:D).
    Regarding the european collector, your dealer was probably refering to BCD. He sold his tremendous collection in different parts (the one dedicated to Olympia is the LEU 90).
     
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  12. Prokles

    Prokles Well-Known Member

    This is the catalog of BCD Olympia:

    LEU_90.JPG
     
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  13. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    That's a great acquisition, @Theodosius! Your picture is miles better than Roma's. With the coin in hand, you're probably the one who can best say if the nose flaw in the Roma picture was just a result of bad lighting and photography.
     
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  14. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    If it was the same collector, it's unfortunate in the story told to Theodosius he passed on since BCD is very much alive :D. He posts here on occasion.
     
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  15. Prokles

    Prokles Well-Known Member

    I confirm. Although he sold his entire collection, he still has a phenomenal library, one of the most important in the word regarding the Numismatic (especially for the sales catalogs).
     
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  16. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    I had heard later on that it was BCD who bought up all the Elis coins in the market. It was my presumption that he had passed on, very glad to hear that is not the case. Having seen what a phenomenal collection BCD managed to amass I have to say he is one of my heroes!

    :)
     
  17. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    Prokles: Thanks for the clarifications! For some reason I thought Seltman's coin b was in a Paris museum. You could be right that it may be my coin. The reverse on mine does not look at all double struck even with a 10x loupe. I need to find a copy of the Leu 90 sale...
     
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  18. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    Related to my Dekadrachm repair thread, I think some cleaning work was done to this coin. Either dirt or corrosion seems to have been removed from the end of his nose and below. The glob of metal on the end of his nose looks like it was metal filling into a die break and not metal added later. There is no visible seam around the blob that would show it was added. Some lamination of the flan is visible below his nose and a layer may have broken off. Makes me wonder how much the weight of the coin could have decreased as a result of these changes?

    Either way, I am stoked to have a Zeus stater finally, now 30ish years after first seeing them in books.
     
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  19. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    Congratulations on a wonderful stater! The coinage of Elis is among my favorite and I quite like the dramatic depiction of your reverse eagle.
     
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  20. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    Thanks Joe, I appreciate your comment!
     
  21. Prokles

    Prokles Well-Known Member

    If you are patient, you'll find one.
    I have one but don't have yet any Elis stater (I'd prefer the opposite:)). In the meantime, I make do with a few hemidrachms and one obol.
    Concerning the catalog, you can use acsearch: https://www.acsearch.info/search.ht...esaurus=1&order=0&company=62&auction=292&lot=
     
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