Your Opinion Please--Is This Kennedy Overgraded?

Hey all, been lurking on this site a while, learning what I can. Just made my biggest purchase to date and perhaps have a little buyers remorse.

NGC graded this at MS66 and the more I look at it, the more the contact marks jump out at me. I think this is overgraded--perhaps the toning influenced the grade. Your thoughts?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I'm not an expert, but is this the "accented hair" variety? I'd say it's a stunning coin either way but one cardinal rule I've learned when dealing with slabbed/graded coins is so never pay for the grade, only the coin itself. Often times a 3rd-party grading service can over-grade a coin as you're suspecting. I'm no expert but I'd say this is an easy MS-63/64.

 

This is a business strike. Believe accented hair is on proofs only. I think you may be right about the slab influencing me. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

My initial response when I saw the coin wasn't MS-66. MS-66 coins shouldn't have gouges and gashes in them like that.

Also, the luster looks like it could be there in hand, but from the photos it's iffy.

If this were a "Guess the Grade" thread, I, like PTrain22, would have said MS-63/64.

 

This is not a PR.

The idea of "buying the coin and not the slab" only works if one knows what they're doing, but still, one should be comfortable with their purchase no matter what. However, and generally speaking, always assuming the worst and "never pay[ing] for the grade" is a good way to end up with low-end junk as quality pieces are less likely to present themselves if one is unwilling to pay for them.

 

It's just a general rule of thumb Books, you can take it with a grain of salt if you wish. I doubt we're the same type of collector, my interest in in strong buys and getting good value, condition doesn't necessarily matter as long as the price is right for the appropriate grade/quality. At least you quoted the part of my reply which stated "I'm not an expert" lol

 

While there is nothing wrong with "strong buys" or "good value", if I had a dollar for every time I've watched someone with this mind set end up with junk, I'd be a rich man. You are not unique in wanting such things, but this is a hobby/business of knowledge; strong buys/good value comes not from making assumptions, but from knowing what one is doing.

 

I think in a technical sense...this coin has too many hits to grade MS66. However, several things are factored into grading a coin...including eye appeal. If this coin is as pretty in hand as it appears to be, that extra eye appeal might be enough to offset a couple dings.

 

I agree, and to be fair you sound like a veteran collector with a wealth of knowledge, I'm a novice and am far less educated in many areas of the hobby/industry. My collection contains mainly lower end pieces as you may have guessed, but I also live in a non-affluent area where disposable incomes and therefore high-end coin collectors are non-existent. What I collect 95% of the time is merely what's available locally. I've tested the EBAY waters in an attempt to buy higher end coins but try to avoid the premiums etc.....

I'd like to apologize to Osmanli for hijacking his original MS-66 Kennedy post.

 

65

 

Barrett--this coin did receive a star. However, I had thought that a star is separate from the grade itself. In looking over the PCGS guide, however, amazing eye appeal can add up to one point in technical grade. Thanks.

 

Toning isn't supposed to affect the grade in theory, but well graders are human, and sometimes it does. (Though if it were me, toning like this would lower the grade, not raise it). It does otherwise have good eye appeal, but I don't think this deserves better than a 65 honestly, and realistically it looks more like a high-end 64 to me. Maybe it's that "market grading" that's all the rage these days. But yeah, on a purely technical level, I think it's overgraded by at least a point, maybe even 2.

P.S. Maybe it's just my personal tastes here, but I don't like that toning at all, plus the brown color makes the defects and marks show up more. This is considered attractive? Really?

 

I've collected a handful of 1964 Kennedy half dollars slabbed by PCGS in various grades, and I think PCGS got the OP coin right. Coins graded 63 to 64 are literally sprinkled with contact marks. There's no way that coin grades that low. It's at least a 65 because of the very small number of contact marks, compared to other coins of that year.

It also has a nice strong strike. The detail on the bust is quite sharp in the hair, the ear, and the facial features. One place the strike can be very weak on these coins is the shield area on the reverse. Often the top edge of the shield is altogether missing, and the eagle's neck feathers are indistinct. The shield itself is often covered with contact marks. The OP coin shows full detail in this area with no marks at all.

It's difficult to capture luster in a photograph, but I suspect that it also has above-average luster because of the strong strike, and that would easily put it at 66, whether it was toned or not.

I saw quite a few discrepancies in PCGS's grading of these coins, but I believe this one is graded correctly.

 

Despite the visible hits on the OP's coin, I think it is important to consider that the worst of them are not located in the prime focal areas. With that said, I think 66 is too high, and a 64 might have been more appropriate.

Chris

 

Here's a coin graded by PCGS at 64, and it has the typical "problems" of a mid-grade MS piece, particularly on the reverse. Although the shield struck up well, it is absolutely covered with small contact marks, as is the the entire reverse. Also, notice the weak strike on the right tail feathers, the leftmost arrow shafts and heads, and the rightmost fletchings.


The high points of the obverse on this particular coin also exhibit some major hits. The cheek has significant contact marks, and the base of the neck is covered with chatter. And then there's the lovely fingerprint toning...



This is a rather typical 64 as PCGS sees them, which is why I think the OP coin is at least a 65.

 

John, this is a bit off-topic, but if you are referring to the area below Kennedy's ear, I don't think that was caused by a fingerprint. I've seen this anomaly in the same position on many Kennedy's of varying years. I can't explain the exact reason for it, but I really don't believe it to be a fingerprint.

Chris

 

I like the toning on it...When I started collecting I couldn't stand toned coins for some reason...not sure why, but the more I collect and look at coins the more I dig some of the authentic toning patters that you see. Great looking coin there...I say they got the grade correct.

 

Possibly by one grade--I would have said 65. Then again, I disagree with some of the comments made before that it ha a lot of contact marks. I don't think that it has many contact marks at all--what one is seeing is toning aggregations, and marks from where the toning begins and ends. It is a beautiful coin--probably in reality a high end 65, and NGC graded it 66 for eye appeal due to beautiful toning--no harm in that, as it would sell for far more than 66 money anyway.

 

I can get behind this. There are a couple hits on the obverse that would normally limit this coin to the 65 range (base of the neck, field to the right of his head, a couple digs in the hair next to the field dings)...overall it's a very nice coin. I would call it a strong 65 and with the toning and added eye appeal, its worthy of an extra 1 point bump IMHO.

 

That's very interesting. Some sort of metal flow anomaly perhaps? As to the toning in the right field, however, I can't tell whether it's a fingerprint or not, but I don't care for it, and if I was in the market for a 64-graded Kennedy, I would look for one without the odd spots.