Would you care if a coin was AT toned if nobody could tell the difference?

Lets say in the future one could artificially tone a coin so good that not even a professional could tell the difference and the methods were public knowledge would you care if your coin was AT toned if it looked good?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

My opinion, I don't like AT in general, it is an unnatural surface. To me, you might as well clean them with Tarn-X. I wouldn't buy it.

 

I agree, even if it was a 09' S VDB Cent for hundreds less, I still wouldn't want it.

 

I think all hell would break loose if you could no longer tell the difference between AT and NT. In fact, there are some AT'ed coins that have gotten past PCGS and NGC! It's pretty scary.

 

That's something to be scared about. Last thing you would want is to buy a $1000 coin with AT and find out its only worth $200.

 

Not always but IMO most of the time a coin is AT to cover up something. IE: harsh cleaning, over dipping, scratched or some kinda of flaw. So Yes I would not want a coin that's AT

 

But that is the point. If nobody can tell the difference, how would you ever be in a position to find out that the coin is only worth $200. I would like everyone reading this thread to consider the question posed by the OP and apply it to coin pictured below, then give us your answer.



This coin has a Numismedia Wholesale value of $53 and a price tag of $1,200. That is a premium of over 20X wholesale.

BTW, my answer to the OP's question is yes I would care because it would cause the collapse of the toned coin market which I am heavily invested in.

 

The premise of his question included the above. If a professional ( lets say PCGS or NGC) couldn't tell, what are you going to do? Stop collecting any
toned coins at all. This is somewhat ironic because more than likely if you have a toned coin collection, ( even if it includes some PCGS,NGC, etc), you already have some AT coins. Not a popular statement, but chemistry is chemistry.

Of course everyone wants a "natural", but if you can't tell........ Just as an aside, the first ( over 1 carat) synthetic diamonds have hit the market place. GIA has reported on them being submitted to labs by people (who thought they had a great deal I guess). They are really diamonds, but you need certain gemological lab equipment to try and distinguish.

​

 

If I like it and the price is right then I don't really care. Don't intend on selling it anyway.

 

Yep, exactly. I have seen them get toned as well. The Grilledporkchop's point was very valid, they used to be toned to cover up the fact that they were cleaned or modified, that is why toned coins used to cost less.

The danger of investing in the toning is that it IS reproducable, its chemistry and at some point someone will make a foolproof system to tone. Most AT toning nowadays is easier to tell, but if they ever got it to the point where mass amounts of coins could be toned and no one could tell, then to the OP question No, I would not care in the least. Why would you if its truly not differentiatable? Hopefully if there were no toning premium everyone would stop AT. I understand the price paid for toning would collapse, this is why I agree with Doug that it is dangerous to invest serious money JUST in toning. If a coin has beautiful toning but otherwise is worth little, I think it is a dangerous game to be buying the beauty. If you buy a coin for $500 that is toned that untoned would be worth $450, then ok that is your choice. I just think its extremely dangerous to buy a coin for $500 if an untoned version is worth $100. I am not saying those collectors are wrong, I just will not ever take that risk. Even hard green patina on ancient coins, which as far as I know is not reproducible, I will only pay a small premium for, not large premiums that some ancient collectors will pay. There too I am afraid that someday someone will be able to reproduce it.

P.S. I just want to reiterate that anyone can collect what they like, its their hobby, this area is just not for me. I really respect your posts Lehigh, you just have more guts than I do.

 

Some call it guts, others call it stupidity. The truth is it is probably a little of both.

 

Well Lehigh, a lot of people have made a lot of money on things I either don't understand or disagree with. If I really knew all of the answers I would be in a beach somewhere making millions a year with a phone call a day.

We all have our opinions, and never know who is right until its too late.

 

Bad thing about AT'ing rare coins is that its destroying that example, therefore less survive. So I say its pure stupidity.

 

yet it didnt stop you creating the toned coin market. sometimes i dont know what to tell you grandpa you never stop to think

now write a few paragraphs on how to get blue colored toned coins i like that color

 

Blue Paint will do it

 

It isn't destroying the coin anymore than NT would be destroying the coin. They are the same group of chemical reactions, unless it is really De Orc's blue paint or other cosmetic application.
​

 

People already can't tell AT from NT
all these professionals on toning don't really know what they're talking about.
In my experience AT coins properly done get into tpg slabs 90% of the time.
The other 10% usually gets a details slab for harsh cleaning etc.

 

Frankly what would happen is the price of toned coins would drop to roughly the same level as non-toned coins. Because if people paid a premium for toned coins the number of toned coins would simply increase to fill the demand. If the price stayed high the number of toned pieces would keep increasing until the non-toned coins were scarcer than the toned ones.

 

....then the market would be talking about all of the "dippers" making toned coins white, ala 1978. To me, buy the coin if you like it, if its toned, fine, if its white fine. The coin is the same. I really do love how collectors are open now to original coins, hopefully we would never go back to the bad old days of dipping every toned coin.