Why would a 1999 NGC MS-70 ASE be worth $25,000 ?

http://silvertowne.com/p-17274-1999-silver-american-eagle-ms70-ngc.aspx

It doesn't seem to be anything special in MS-65 according to my price guide

and why is the 1995-w proof so high ?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

good question you have there!

 

The 1999 Silver Eagle is a condition rarity in MS70. Someone who has better access to NGC's population report than I do should be able to give you complete details. In contrast, they're common in all grades from MS69 down.

The 1995-W proof was a special issue that only came with gold proof sets. It had a low mintage (~30K) and is the undisputed key to the proof SAE series in any grade.

 

I find it odd that MS-69 is common and MS-70 so rare. That seems like a hugely over-priced coin.

 

There were only 78 graded at that level.. as compared to over 70,000 at 69.





Hope that was/is not an infraction of the rules stating this!! If so, feel free to edit the info out.

 

That would seem like a good item to crack out of a 69 slab. I'll bet a lot of those 69's have gone thru the cycle a few times.

I'm surprised there are that many available with a price of 25k. I'd never buy it.

 

Crazy stupid for splitting hairs........

 

There is no good reason for SilverTowne to be asking that price for it. NGC has certified 78 of the 1999 as MS70 and who knows how many PCGS has certified. It does tell you one thing, though, and that is that SilverTowne is not a company you can trust.

The 1995-W is another story. It was the first SAE to ever have the West Point mintmark on it, but a lot of Eagle collectors were caught unaware when it was released. You see, it was released only with the 4-piece gold set, but it wasn't even advertised. There were only 30,125 minted, and these 5-coin sets sold out very quickly not to be made any more. In short time, the '95-W SAE shot up in value making it worth more than the cost of the entire set. Specimens that graded PF70 skyrocketed to about $7K. Now, the price for these has fallen quite a bit, but dealers and collectors who paid huge premiums for them are unable to sell them without taking substantial losses.

Chris

 

PCGS has certified 0 at MS70. As an aside, 1999 was a very tough year as the coins had a tendency to milk spot. More so than other years.

 

I totally agree. There is virtually no difference in appearance between a 69 and a 70. This is odd about PCGS not giving out the 70 grade as the other Doug states. I could see cracking out a NGC 69 and sending to PCGS, maybe get lucky ?

These modern registry set guys pay insane prices for stuff that isn't rare at all.

 

Evidently, not for 1999. I'm sure that you are aware that when PCGS lifted this restriction, lots and lots of SAE got sent in for a regrade.

 

ms69 vs ms70

theres not much difference between an ms69 and ms70 but there is a difference. a little nick or scratch or dot or whatever makes it flawed. a ms70 is perfect.
if you have an ms70 with the smallest blemish its not an ms70
its a big deal if you are trying to collect perfect coins. being perfect is a big step from being nearly perfect. its like the difference between a large number and infinity

if you cant tell the difference between an ms69 and ms70 you're not looking close enough. i can easily spot the flaw in an ms69 without magnification in just a couple seconds. you see the little nick or scuff of whatever and thats why its a 69. a 70 you can stare at it all day at 5x and there shouldnt be anything

 

You are fooling yourself if you think that each coin graded 70 is necessarily better in quality than those graded 69 and/or that it is fairly easy to tell the difference.

And, you are wrong about 70 coins being "perfect". The major grading companies, themselves do not require that, as per their written standards.

Welcome to the forum from a former NGC grader.

 

Don't equate a seller's asking price with a coin's "worth". Often, the former is very different from the latter.

 

of course no coin is perfect, you magnify it to 30x and you will start finding surface imperfections on any coin. ngc grading considers ms70 perfect under 5x magnification. if i buy an ms70 especially high value and i can see a visible flaw without magnification, i'm going to call NGC or PCGS and claim that written guarantee because they failed. yes, graders do miss things thats not saying the system failed, that grader failed. thats why they are a numismatic GUARANTEE corporation, they guarantee the grade. same as your .999 silver eagle, what if its .998? its guaranteed by the us govt to be .999 whether it is or not

i'm just saying every ms69 that i have i can find a little mark or something on it. not a large one just a tiny mark or millimeter scratch. but i can see it with the naked eye. if you say you cant see a mark on an ms69 you're really not looking close enough. if i can see it, its there. my wife cares nothing about coins but i can hand her an ms69 and say wheres the flaw and she'll find it in under a minute.

i have some panda coins and the bullion versions are reverse proof. frosted background and shiny foreground. out of a pack of 30 about 66% of them have small imperfections in the frosting where you can tilt the coin and see silver specks shine through where the coating didn't evenly apply. i'm talking about pin head size blemishes. but i can definitely see them. on the other 33% of the coins that are "perfect" as far as i can see with a 20x loupe guess which ones i'm keeping and which ones i'm selling.

so which ones do you think are "better"? for your average joe amateur collector, they could care less. oh pretty panda.
for the hardcore collector who wants perfection (if it is possible) which would they prefer?
there are plenty of collectors who store AE in danco folders... i think its crazy for long term but those guys definitely dont care if its even ms68,ms69 or whatever. they're just collecting the coins.

it all depends on the collector. for average joe collectors, especially with common non high value coins, condition really doesnt matter. ms61-ms65, whats the difference. you start getting into coins that are really common but rare in condition, thats when it matters.

you want another gleaming example? i have a 2012 dragon proof kilo which is a monster coin. nearly every one made has a flaw on the queen's cheek - a pin prick on the highest point where the coating rubbed off because the airtight case is just too small by a hair breath. apparently shipping it causes movement which causes that blemish. one dealer ordered 20 and they all had that flaw. and yes its noticable with the naked eye especially once you know its there. just imagine if you're in australia and you picked it up in person and you have that one perfect PF70 coin and all other 499 coins have that blemish.
am i kidding myself thinking that coin is worth more? and the second question is you have the ONLY perfect coin out of 500 (an already small number), what is the premium that coin is worth?

now you get into the situation where you have one of only 78 coins out of 7 million or so (1999 eagle). whats the premium for that coin? noone sits down and says hey i'll pay $25k extra for that coin cuz its a ms70 over an ms69. its all relative to supply & demand and relativity to other coins.

 

if you think ms69 and ms70 coins are all the same send me all your ms70 coins from your 2011 rolls and you can keep the ms69 with the nicks and tiny scratches. ill even pay you a small premium.
now i do have a really nice ms69 that i couldnt find a flaw until i held it at an angle i could see it has a light swipe mark where it slid across another coin. i give ngc congrats in grading it as a ms69, and its a very nice ms69, but the fact i could see it i would be calling them up and cashing in the guarantee if it were an ms70. on the other hand i have ms69's with very visible marks. even all ms69 are not the same. but if i can see a mark with my naked eye on an ms70 its not an ms70.
i think people just dont pay enough attention to detail. they say hey that ms69 looks gorgeous it looks perfect compared to their pocket change. it looks great compared to the AEs in my danco album, and not even toned. go figure...
the reason ms70 is so hard to find is its hard to handle anything like a coin in the minting to grading chain without having some insignficant but noticable mark. and that mark means its not perfect (to the naked eye).
i'd bet you $500 i could find a flaw and point it out on one of your ms69s without a loupe and that you could not find a flaw with your naked eye on my ms70's. the fact that i can differentiate it (or a grader) means there is a difference. and difference & rarity = value. joe collector may not be able to see the difference but he has paid a grader to tell for him and to certify it.
and you gotta figure with these modern coins nearly every coin is an ms69. there are no au55 AE unless you buried it in the back yard. so an ms70 gives rarity to an otherwise common ms69