Now, I have a basic understanding that having a coin that is "certified" would make it more valuable than a non-certified coin - but why such a disparity in values? I have noticed some coins in the same general condition - but where the non certified coin might sell for $300 - a certified coin will cost $900. Does certification bring that much more value to a coin? If so, why? Please share the mindset behind the inherent value of the certification.:secret:
I don't own a slab, but it seems like the dealers on this site slab everything. That should mean that it will bring more in a sale. They know what they're doing.
Some people like slabbed coins because they're graded, authenticated and sealed away forever in an airtight block of plastic. They take all the work (fun) out of collecting, and make it an investor's game.
It's no secret. The certification and slabbing of coins was originally intended to create a sight-unseen market for collector coins. An independent 3rd party who would be impartial in grading a coin. They also offered authentication services. This is a great benefit to a collector because if the coin contained in a grading service holder is found to be counterfeit, the grading companies will buy the coin back. These are both added values. Since then, the market and the grading companies have evolved and the purpose and use of the services has become a bit more abstract but suffice to say that the TPGs make it easier for a dealer to buy and sell a coin because they know it is authentic, at least relatively accurate in its grade and problem-free. Less quibbling over grade and price. Most times people inaccurately grade coins and believe their worth (or profess their worth) to be vastly greater than it is. The TPG graders have years of experience over multiple series and 99 times out of 100 will be accurate to their standard.
When one says "a disparity in value", be careful... sometimes we're comparing apples and oranges. PROBLEMS : For instance, let's pick $3 gold, which are notorious for cleaning, polishing, and counterfeits. The raw $3 coins are mostly problem coins, while the slabbed coins are mostly problem free coins. The slabbed coins tend to bring more because they tend to be better coins, not for the slab per se. The raw coins sell for less because they tend to be lower quality, even if claimed to be just as good. GRADING : Let's say we're comparing two half dollars - a 1941 Walking 50c MS64 PCGS vs. a different 1941 50c coin raw, claimed to be MS64 by a dealer. I have found the dealers over grade much, much worse than the TPGs. So when the PCGS MS64 coin sells for more than the raw MS64, maybe the raw coin wasn't MS64 at all. It sold for less because it was less of a coin. So the real question is "Would the same coin sell for more in a slab ?" I think so, but not as much as some think. Useful to note that sometimes coins sell for less in slabs. That's sometimes true of early Large Cents, which tend to have rim bumps which are less visible in slabs. With a slab, the buyer can't tell for sure, so some folks prefer raw copper and pay less for slabs.
I wonder if anyone has bought a slabbed coin that they thought was counterfeit, to return to the TPG for the cash?
While even the best grading companies are far from perfect, certification by them instills confidence in buyers that they are getting an accurately graded coin. Generally speaking, using your example above, if you see a certified example bring $900, compared to $300 for a non-certified one, chances are good that the non-certified one is over-graded. And if so, even at $300, the price might be way too high. There are other possible explanations for the disparity, but more times than not, it is the result of over-grading and/or lack of confidence in the non-certified coin.
I've never seen a $300 coin sell for $900 just because it was slabbed. Some coins do bring a slight premium slabbed, such as key dates, simply for the insurance it brings to the buyer. But I have to say, 9 times out of 10 the slabbed coins I purchase have no noticeable markup because they reside in plastic. Guy~
You haven't seen an uncertified coin of the supposed same grade sell for a fraction of what a certified one has? I have on countless occasions. And it's almost always because the uncertified one is over-graded (often badly so), and not worth anywhere close to what the better quality/certified one is.
I think what coleguy was saying was two comparable coins in the same grade. One slabbed and one unslabbed.
Not quite the same thing but with all the counterfiets around, similar situations are arising. A dealer of many years experience purchased a raw 1916D Merc Dime. Sent it in for grading. Got it back in a body bag as fake. Resent to another TPGS and got it back gradded and slabbed. USED to be the thing not long ago if you want proof a coin is real, send it in for grading and slabbing. Eventually the China syndrom took effect and the are now producing counterfeit slabs for thier counterfeit coins. What this means is although it may be safer to purchase a slabbed by a popular TPGS, it really may be just another fake. And too as this hobby runs rampid with slabbing, there are those that know how to open and reseal a slab so they could put anything they want inside a real one. Many, many dealers I know used to brag that this or that coin was the real thing since it was PCGS or NGC. Now with possibly a hundred grading services around, not sure anyone knows for real what is what. One dealer I know will not purchase a coin for more due to being in a slab since he says he can no longer charge extra for that. Way to many others are also selling coins in slabs for normal grey sheet system pricing due to so many TPGS's around and many don't know which is which. On coin forums like this one there are only a handfull of individuals that buy and sell coins. Out there in the rest of the world there are many millions that do not use forums like this and are not aware of fakes in or out of slabs. Those too do not want to pay extra for a coin in plastic that has little meaning to them. I myself have no plastic slabbed coins but have purchased many over the years. I've no idea if those were real or not. They just go into an Album and that make me happy so I really don't care if someone wants to pay or sell more for a slabbed coin since I take them out anyway. Back to the original question though. I still think as a general rule dealers still want or expect more for a slabbed coin. Many still try to brag that this is a PCGS or NGC slab so it just has to be worth more.
Take the exact same coin, not 2 of the same date and mint, the exact same coin. Offer it for sale raw, sight seen, to a group of educated collectors, and offer it for sale, sight seen, to the same group of educated collectors - and the difference in price, if any, will be minimal. Offer that same coin the same ways on ebay, and you will probably see a huge difference in price. Having the coin slabbed makes it easier to sell to uneducated collectors or those who cannot see it in person, but it does not necessarily bring a higher price if offered to the right group of collectors. Or even an individual collector for that matter.
In todays economy I have not noticed a large disparity such as you have opinioned. In fact, most of my recent "slabbed" purchases were bought because they were less costly than than there similar unslabbed counterparts. Of course there are exceptions and I was lucky, but then I try to buy "the coin and not the slab".:smile
As collectors, we would be well advised to purchase coins that are worth the same (or similar) regardless of if they are slabbed or raw. A wise collector once told me to always consider this point when contemplating purchasing a coin, and the advice has proven to be dead-on. Said another way, shy away from coins in expensive plastic. Said even more bluntly, if coins that I'm considering double in price because of the slab, I will generally not buy them.
I agree with you -- for most classic coins (that aren't in overgraded holders). However, for many modern coins, particularly as you get close to the top-pop, that simply is not the case (and reason for worry if you agree with my preceding post).
"I'm comin Elizabeth !! This is the big one !!" - he says in his best Red Fox imitation I just have to say that when I find myself agreeing with Mike :whistle:
Exactly, true collectors and numismatic purists will opin that it matters not whether a coin is in some TPG holder or not. They have the confidence that the coin is authentic and up to their desired standards as far as collectability. Frankly I have some coins in TPG holders that are overgraded, I have some that are in my opinion undergraded. I have far more coins that are just in Kointains capsules that I bought raw and keep raw. One of my favourite USA coins is a 1794 Liberty Cap cent that I bought years ago - it came straight out of a penny board that was put together in the 1930s. The coin has been in a capsule, but I will never have it graded - someone else's opin means naught to me. I like being able to handle the coin and feel the heft of it's 13 gramme weight in my paw. I don't have that same exhileration with the 1795 lettered edge cent in AU-55 in a TPG holder. The latter is far far more expensive than the former, but it means less - because it is in some plastic tomb. More novice collectors prefer the assurance that the piece of plastic gives them.
