Why are people the way that they are.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Restitutor, May 2, 2021.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    The market actually agrees that they are nice examples too. Flavian denarii often are seen worn because of their long circulation lifespans. These are exceptional, hence the hammer prices.
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  3. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    I'm not too surprised about the Flavian denarii, but there is no shortage of mint state Gordian IIIs - the OP example is exemplary, but IMO, a $150-200 coin tops.

    I'll stick to my >$50 example thank you very much
    Gordian III AR denarius AETERNITATI AVG Sol.jpg
  4. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums Supporter

    IMO this is what happens when grade-obsessed modern collectors enter the ancients market. @Claudius_Gothicus pointed out another example to me today:
    Screen Shot 2021-05-02 at 9.43.02 PM.jpg
    This type is as common a dirt, but someone thought the grade was so marvellous it was worth paying ridiculous money for the coin today.

    Once the pandemic is truly over, people will have less money to spend on coins as they go to restaurants, travel etc. Prices will drop. I hope some of these new collectors stay with us and educate themselves. (Actually I am also OK if they continue to obsess about grade but leave the rest to us.) But I suspect quite a few will leave the hobby... and lose money.

    True, it's not that easy to find a great Gordie denarius... many are struck from worn dies. Here's the one I settled on eventually:
    It has slightly more wear than the OP coin, but I actually prefer it due to style and toning. Hammer price? 40 euros. In March of this year. Go figure!
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  5. Limes

    Limes Supporter! Supporter

    Late to the party, but I finally had success at a Naumann auction and obtained a dream-coin for a fair price. For obvious reasons I will not show my win, until it's in my hands :)

    Overall, I won't utter my opinion anymore about the recent prices in auctions. It's pointless anyway. So, instead, i'll share a well known haiku ;)

    auctions are easy
    but sometimes they don't make sense
    Egry, Broucheion, Theodosius and 13 others like this.
  6. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter


    This made my day :D

    Ryro, Theodosius, Limes and 2 others like this.
  7. Romancollector

    Romancollector Well-Known Member

    I didn't watch the whole auction, so I can't speak on the auction as a whole. Regarding the Flavian denarii, I don't think that the prices are anything to be surprised about. While these coins are not uncommon, their grade warrants their prices. They are by no means perfect, but have decent strikes and reasonably appealing surfaces. To anyone who disagrees.....take a look at the prices for similarly graded Flavian denarii at any recent CNG feature auction, Roma, NAC....etc. There is no question that prices have risen post-covid, but the hammer prices of these coins are very much in line with other recent auctions. As for the Gordian III denarius, it is a little higher than what I would have expected (500-600 range), but not unimaginable. As of late, you simply have to go the extra mile to get something truly exceptional.

    Also, I disagree with the idea that there is a "grade" craze being driven by modern collectors. There are obviously multiple factors at play, but I do not think that this is one of the more significant ones. I was never really a modern collector, but rather decided that I wanted refine and upgrade my ancient collection. I suspect that in the wake of covid, with less things to do, other ancient collectors are doing the same thing.
  8. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    Just saw their post-auction email; they did not use the Gordian. I am pleasantly surprised, lol. Makes me wonder if they are equally perplexed :greedy:
    DonnaML and Roman Collector like this.
  9. savitale

    savitale Well-Known Member

    Good choice on their part. Maybe they were embarrassed that their estimate was laughably low.
  10. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Active Member

    The coins that have sharp detailing sound right at about $250-400, but 400 euros for a Gordian III (which is a bit common) is pushing it.
  11. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I went back and looked up how much I spent on my own example of the same Gordian III type when I bought it back on April 7, 2018 -- one of my earlier purchases through VCoins when I started collecting ancient coins actively about 3 years ago.

    Gordian III - Emp on horseback Aegean listing from 2018.jpg

    As I said before, it's a perfectly nice coin, and I'm entirely happy with it. Maybe it would cost more than $45 now, but not that much more!
  12. ro1974

    ro1974 Well-Known Member

    do i get for this one 900 to :)
  13. Valentinian

    Valentinian Supporter! Supporter

    Here is mine.
    20 mm. 3.22 grams.
    RIC 81 "R, third issue" July - Dec. 240.
    $30 on eBay in 2001.
  14. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    Paging our RR expert @DonnaML for thoughts on this hammer… genuinely uneducated in the RR realm so no idea what to think. It’s a lovely coin, was gonna go for it before the bidding at the end put it way outside my budget!

    DonnaML and Bing like this.
  15. akeady

    akeady Well-Known Member

    Crazy price, especially as the same coin sold for $360 at CNG 3 years ago!

  16. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    Oh wow how did I miss that! I hope the prior owner is celebrating with a nice steak dinner and a bottle of Dom tonight :hilarious:
    akeady likes this.
  17. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Wow. Lovely coin, but $1,800? Really? I paid 250 Euros (just under $300) for mine last November -- less than six months ago -- to Lucernae, in Spain.

    Naevius Balbus Venus-Victory in Triga Both Sides.png

    Mine doesn't have that coin's provenance, but I happen to think (although of course I'm biased), that it's at least as nice. Especially because of the toning, and because all three horses' heads are completely on the flan, unlike on the coin just sold. Is the provenance worth that much extra? Or were there simply a couple of bidders who weren't very well-informed about the Roman Republican coin market?

    I know it's one of only two Roman Republican coin types depicting trigas, but still. I wonder if the buyer realized that this happens to be one of the larger Roman Republican coin issues, with 280 obverse and 311 reverse dies according to Crawford. It's not exactly scarce.
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
  18. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    On the numismatic Facebook groups I'm in, some random members post, sometimes, ancient coins, with the same super questions - "what is that? what's it worth?"
    In the rare cases when the coin is a silver ancient (usually VG in the best case scenario), the big specialists provide their expertise, usually "wooooow this is silver and it's very old, it must be [insert abnormal price here]".

    Perhaps the "specialists" have recently discovered auctions, as this would explain some of the prices in the last months.
  19. xCoin-Hoarder'92x

    xCoin-Hoarder'92x Storm Tracker

  20. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    This is the EXACT scene I was thinking of when I made the post title, bravo haha
  21. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

    I paid 400 kroner for a coin of that quality in 2008. About 75$ at that time.
    I sold it for 2x of that price a few years later. Never expected it to go 24x plus 18%.

    Looking at the current market, I’m probably taking a break from buying now. I have to say I’m quite happy I did pick up a lot of good coins last winter and this winter. My most expensive coin during my buying «benders» (thank you @Roman Collector ) has been a really beautiful Anastasius solidus; 750 CHF. That’s half the price of the Balbus denarius, which is an extremely common coin, even in EF.
    (So is the Anastasius solidus, but there’s quite a difference in bullion value here too)


    I’ve installed Coinbase on my phone, and started a small collection of altcoin. Time to learn something new, as the investors and the monetary policies around the world seem to create market dislocations that are making it hard to keep up with the ancient coin market.
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