Where to find Modern Counterfeits

OK, looking to help a friend make some extra money selling UV Pen Lights for detecting counterfeit currency. I figure the best place to start is to target restaurants, convenience stores, etc... anywhere you see the cashiers using those stinking counterfeit pens.

I figure the sales pitch could go something along the lines of giving the business owner/manager free materials from the BEP like the know your money posters, explaining the faults and indeficiencies of the counterfeit pen, then giving a demonstration on how the pen fails to detect known counterfeit notes, yet show how the pen light quickly detects them.

I imagine short of finding any modern counterfeits, I could just bleach a few $1 bills and a $5 bill to still show how the paper can be reused.

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Just a footnote before someone says it. It's illegal to attempt to pass a known counterfeit note as a genuine note. It is not illegal to merely possess one (although possession of counterfeit notes can be viewed as probable cause on a search warrant, but keeping them together with sales materials for UV lights should avert any type of suspicion in that arena).

 

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i agree with you gatzdon. Merely possesing a fake note is NOT illegal. I have a very obvious fake note i got from a local business owner. I checked into the legality because i did not want to get in trouble if i was caught with it.

It is ONLY illegal if you try to pass off a fake note as real. Otherwise, fake notes are legal to keep.

 

There are probably quite a few small-business owners who would gladly sell you their counterfeit notes for what they paid for them. $100 should get you a counterfeit $100 bill.

 

the local business owner who gave me the note did just that ... he gave it to me... free. He knew i was a collector, and once his staff had enough time to look at the note, study why it was fake - he gave it to me.

 

While I would gladly pay a few bucks for a known counterfeit, I would be extremely hesitant to pay "Face Value" for one.

 

I agree. But put the shoe on the other foot. If you were a small business owner and your clerk accepted a counterfeit $100 bill how would you feel about accepting a few bucks for it? That's why everyone should know how to spot a counterfeit bill.

There was a local news report the other day where a Girl Scout accepted a counterfeit $100 bill for some Girl Scout cookies. She was going have to make up for the loss with her own money until an anonymous donor stepped forward.

Couple uses counterfeit $100 bill to buy cookies from Colo. Girl Scout troop

 

But there is a reason why he's going to feel so burned, and that's because it's not worth face value. I sympathize, but a counterfeit note is not worth face value to me and probably almost everyone else you ask.

 

I fully agree. There is a price to be paid for ignorance - and if you accept a counterfeit bill the price is the face value of the note. The price is even steeper if you knowinly try to pass it off on someone else.

There are some who collect counterfeits and are willing to pay for good examples. But, for modern counterfeits - especially a $50 or $100 note - they would not offer anywhere close to "face value". (Old contemporary counterfeits often bring more than their genuine counterparts. I have a few counterfeit Conferderate notes that I paid more than "face" for.)

 

As a footnote, I think the legality of owning counterfeits might be misunderstood. While it is not a crime to own a counterfeit if you have no intention of passing it, it is still illegal in and of itself, and can be confiscated by the feds.

I do wish they would enact an exemption for bona fide collectors, as it is a very interesting field.

 

The US Secret Service, would frown on you having a modern note that is a counterfeit. Even though if you have one in your possession and no intent to defraud anyone, they have a right to confiscate it. The reasoning for that is several fold:

1. To reduce the number of counterfeits in circulation that could be used with malicious intent to defraud in the future and.

2. To help track and trace current investigations on counterfeit distribution.

I would not be open about having any in my possession if I had any that can be used as legal tender.

JBK - they will never make exceptions for collectors, simply because of the fact that where do you draw the line on who is authorized and what you would have could be critical in solving a current investigation. However, if they did, I would assume they would "molest" the note to a condition that would make it undesirable to collect.


Jeff

 

I know it would be difficult and unlikely to get such an exemption passed, but I think such a proivision has been tried before. Perhaps some day some legislator could slip it in a large bill and it could get by.

There are lots of fakes that are very colletable and somewhat valuable, such as the Henning nickel, which sells for 20-30$ lately.

I had used the term "bona fide collectors" because a similar term exists in federal law regarding firearms. It is something of a gray area, of course and a judge can decide what is "bona fide", but it provides some opportunities for the private citizen.

I am not holding my breathe on fake coins/notes, but it would be nice to be able to collect them, or perhaps get a license or register the collection as a way to be able to keep it.

 

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When has the 'holding' of counterfeit coins or currency become illegal to own? you can hold them, collect them or use them to skip across the lake. The only time the feds care is when those same objects are used as 'money'. So there is no needed legislation for collectors. it is already possible for collectors to have them.

oldbucks - I have talked to my mother-in-law, who is the manager of a couple banks. She told me that holding or collecting them is NOT illegal. Using them as if they are real is when the proverbial line has been crossed. The Feds may not like it if you have them, but they cant leggaly do much more then harrass you just for having them.

 

I don't have the law in front of me (so others should step in and correct me if I mis-state this).

But, there was a law passed that regulates "replicas" and requires certain markings to indicate such. A counterfeit note in a collection would fall into the category of replica and as such would require certain markings unless you can prove it was made prior to the law going into effect. Having a counterfeit with Series design 1996 or later would definitely be impossible to prove it was made prior to the law going into effect. The absence of such marking would make the note itself illegal.

While the collector would not be guilty of any crimes provided they played no part in producing the note and made no effort to pass it off as genuine, the note itself would still be subject to seizure (absent the required markings).

I'm guessing that the risk of such seizure would be similar to the risk of seizure of gold certificates prior to the ban having been lifted (it occured occasionally and many speculated that such seizures were politically motivated).

So, if I ever do find a modern counterfeit, I'm guessing that if I clearly write "COUNTERFEIT" on the note, that I would be in compliance with such a law as it would take a relatively dimwitted person to accept a banknote with such a marking as legal tender. As it would be getting used to help debunk the "counterfeit pen" and sell UV lights or automated detectors, the marking would not take away from the note's usefulness.

As banks have strict policies on turning over suspect notes to the Secret Service promptly (who in turn do not return counterfeit notes), I'm guessing it may be difficult to find one. In the meantime, i'm thinking it will be almost as useful to bleach a $1 bill to at least show how the paper can be gotten easily.

Thanks for all the replies.

 

im going to try that gatzdon! i will take a $1 note, and bleach it. not to do anythign with it, just to have a sample in my collection. I would like to see what i would come up with bleaching the note.

on the issue of fake notes. My mother-in-law didnt say anything about the laws and such requiring "replica' or 'Copy' to appear, she just told me i was ok to have it, as long as i didnt try to use it. So what you are saying is very possible also true. I never wrote anything to say my fake $20 2004A series note is actually fake, but it pretty easy to tell if you look closely at it. I did, howver, mark it as counterfeit onthe mylar holder its in.(Just so i dont someday forget)

 

I think I found it

 

so is it safe to assume then, that anything NOT compying with that law is considered counterfeit?

 

I can lookup the secret service's phone number if you want to call???

LOL

 

Eh...I'm thinking this whole line of argument is a red herring, because the note itself is illegal anyway--it's a counterfeit! The question is whether you're committing a crime by owning it.

Every careful legal explanation I've ever read has concluded that (a) you're *not* committing a crime by merely owning it, but (b) you *would* be committing a crime if the authorities asked you to give it up and you refused.

Therefore, if you're going to attempt to form such a collection, it's probably best not to let anyone know about it. But I don't see that marking your counterfeits as counterfeits would make any difference....