Where is the interest in minor DDOs coming from

I posted this as a response in another thread but figured it was probably a worthwhile discuss to stand alone. It relates to the relatively recent phenomena of very minor DDO hunting/posting/questions that come up.

I do not understand where the interest in these very minor DDOs is coming from. They are not really errors per se because the doubling is so minor that no reasonable die worker would have rejected the die. Remember that all these dies were hubbed twice from the master and it's impossible to get a 100% perfect 2nd image. With high focus microscopes we are starting to find these very slight doubles, but aside from avid LMC variety collectors, what is the appeal?

I had previous collection of late date large cents by die variety so I am not looking down on variety collectors at all. But variety collectors would be interested in these only in so much as they ID a specific die and would not place more value/interest on these over any other random diagnostic mark on a die. Where are all the posts about specific patterns of die polish lines, because at this level, the DDO is just a die marker like any other. If this interests you are you also collecting these by variety in general? That rarely seems to be the case, can anyone help me understand where this interest is coming from and help make sense of it?

 

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Easy answer...

 

I think both of you guys have the answer.

 

Yes we have trolls.

Yes we have a hit it rich surge.

The third answer is we have a number of die variety collectors, of which DDO or DDR is a big thing at the moment.

 

While I'm sure there are trolls, by and large it's hard to argue this is the result of anything other than the trash faction of this hobby promoting the idea that one can easily Strike it Rich with Pocket Change. This, of course, includes everyone from known individuals to YouTube clowns, even a few fellow forum members and many in between.

To be fair, though, there's nothing wrong with those genuinely interested in varieties, including minor ones, and is why it's only reasonable to be kind to these people, at least until or unless they give a reason not to be.

 

I can throw out an idea. Any experienced "real" hobbiest or collector should take a bit of pride in it I think. I will admit all day I am not even close to the level of expertise that some are around here. Quite frankly, I can use the internet and guess what...Ive learned one thing and that is this site provides the best advice. Some people come through here and you can just feeeeel the butt hurt. But in the end, they were given the best answer and the right answer. Ive personally posted some real garbage but after a few times, Im getting a little better at deciding whats worth putting up around here. Im a bit more selective. To get back to your question though, I think it appeals to the same "endorphin rush" a fisher might get or a gambler. Common change that might be worth something! Face it, in todays age of the internet its pretty easy to get at least some kind of answer on a coin you find. I would say that its probably good for you guys that make a living from it. You should encourage the casual collector or "searcher" because it opens up a whole new market of buyers and finders. Its kind of a compliment to what you have done and what you started (which was soooo much harder) years ago before internet. I have a jar I keep cool coins in. they have no real value over face but for different reasons, I think they are cool. Since Ive been paying attention, I never seen an Idaho quarter in my hand. I finally got one just today. Cleaned it up and tossed it in my jar. I tink the phase comes and goes for people. Most will tail off over time after they realize how seriously hard it is to find the real rarity and how much skill it really takes to spot it. As long as Ive wrote all this out babbling on, its important to know Im in my 40s. I work a very difficult job training surgeons (ophthalmologists) for a living. Im now starting to "train" the "trainers" which is cool. I have to continually brush up on the latest trends, methods, details and phone book sized clinical papers to continue being one of the best in the business at what I do. I could never be an expert here. You guys are no different being the masters of your craft. Again, take it all as a compliment...take even the "trolls" as a compliment too for what you have done to make this hobby what it is.

 

Yes, there are trolls and yes, that book made a big deal out of very little. But in the end are we all not free to collect whatever we want. It is after all, a free country. Some here collect trains, sports cards, comic books, lunch boxes, trolls, stamps and whatever else they fancy. We are supposed to be educators to the best of our ability. And it's incumbent upon us all to continue to dispel myths about striking it rich as such, help others to understand that they are only collecting minor coins with very little value and teach them how these were created so they understand the process of the minting of coins. Collect what you want and have fun doing it. It eventually leads to bigger and better things somewhere down the road as long as we continue to support everyone at the beginning of their collecting experiances.

 

Well and good Tommy, but if I can't see the anomaly with my naked eye, as opposed to an 16x loupe, it ain't worth it to me.

Collect what you like (though) chums........

 

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with having a "GET RICH QUICK" mindset from this hobby, this is how this hobby got its exposure. There are no rules as far as how one should do this hobby, it's their time (and money) they're spending so they should be able to do what they wish. It's no different than going to vegas or playing the lottery except this is actually a free hobby, you don't have to spend any money for a chance to hit it big (yes, the odds are astronomical) but it really is fun to search coins, at least for me. It's monotonously (is that a word?) relaxing.

Also, YouTubers are not the root of this "evil" get rich quick scheme, they only repeat what's already a known fact. Coins that sold for insane prices at auction houses or coin shows. The auction houses/coin shows and the TPGs are the true culprits because they are the ones that drives the buying and selling of coins. Anyone notice that most old timers in this hobby no longer search coins, they BUY coins for their collections. They fuel the market of buying and selling, it's not the youtubers. The only thing a youtuber gets from newbies is a "like" click (sometimes a sub) and for giving out info on a variety they've never heard before...I think it's a fair trade. If there was no YT, the same info will be on some website and that website will say the same thing... "Check your change for that 1969 DDO, it's WORTH a lot!"

 

A lot of these sentiments in this thread which I want to address. I agree 100% with the idea, we all collect how we want. There are no rules, this applies even more in ancients and was a huge draw for me. My question and issue is more about why the interest stops at these minor DDOs?

If you stopped at the large, major DDOs I would get that. They are dramatic, rare, and legitimate errors in the sense that the mint should have found and stopped them from entering circulation. But these minor DDOs are basically just die markers for a specific die. If these are interesting, then why not extend into all LMC varieties, why no interest in any other die diagnostic except these minor DDOs.

There are whole portions of this hobby that specialize in die variety collecting, i.e. shelodon, newcomb, overton, VAM, but with LMCs there is an intense focus on minor DDOs. It just seems odd to me because it doesn't match the regular interest pattern from other areas of numismatics. That's not to say it's wrong, I just don't understand where the interest is coming from.

 

I think they are all after major DDs, except all they're finding are the minor ones and if that's all they have, why not see if it's real DD / valuable hence the posts. Also, keep in mind that a lot of these minor DDO/DDRs are listed in the top respected websites like doubleddie and varietyvista which is where most of the new OPs are being sent to to check for comparison.

 

Yes minor DDO/DDR are nothing but a unique die marker that along with other minor markers such as gouges allows a person to attributed a coin to the specific working die that struck it. But this is also true for the major varieties. And being with a few exceptions, major or minor, struck coinage for their entire useful life. Meaning a working die exhibiting a major variety struck approximately the same number of coins as a working die exhibiting a minor variety. So on a true rarity scale both varieties are about the same.

 

No? Then why do I not see you day in and out answering questions from these people? Oh, I know... perhaps it's only a great thing as long as others are the ones dealing with it?

And of course it's not YouTube or Potter-like clowns responsible for this; it's the evil TPGs and auction houses who generally DO NOT attribute or offer minor nothings for sale, and we all know that the first place newbies go is to TPG websites and/or auction archives when wanting to learn about getting rich quickly and easily, no knowledge necessary. Of course I would expect you to personally understand the problem because again, I don't see you bothering to deal with it on a daily basis. Perhaps, sir, before you next time preach about the causes of what we're seeing, maybe, just maybe you should try to do so from a position of experience as opposed to assumption. After all it's not like we haven't had many, many, many people come here acknowledging exactly where they got their bright ideas....

 

They are perceived as the next GOLD RUSH. The easiest thing to make big profits in coin collecting. There are a few avid collectors and researchers, then others that just want to pull the handle on the slot machine.

 

I think you need to take a deeeeep breath, walk outside and compose yourself. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I don't respond to questions because I don't know the answers to their questions, and I certainly won't claim to know. I also won't parrot the knowledgeable ones just to participate in a thread because if they ask me "why" I won't be able to explain myself. I read most if not all of them because I'm interested in seeing what people who are searching their change are finding and then learning. One more thing, helping here is voluntary as I understand it. If you feel stressed, then you should avoid reading the posts. CT will survive if you take a break, I promise. I think your problem is you want to help BUT with the condition that they learn from it...might be news to you but no, not everyone will conform to what you expect from them. This is not a classroom, it's a public open forum. My suggestion (if you can't help yourself from helping), is post your opinion and then move on. Simple. Don't stress yourself, it's not worth it.

As far as your babble about TPGs, you'll have to explain a little better what you're trying to explain to me. None of what you said about TPGs (I don't even know where you got Ken Potter from my post) applies to what I posted.

 

I cannot find it now. Somewhere on the web I saw a ten year graph of a doubled die cent. It was astronomical. That in combination with the misleading information on the web I do believe leads folks to hoping their pocket change has this astronomical value attached to it.

 

Would love to see the graph if you can find it. That makes a lot of sense.

 

Astronomical numbers always grabs the attention. Some people have a very short attention span and do not bother to read the rest.

 

Is it this one? Was curious and had to search the net for it lol.

https://www.pcgs.com/news/the-1955-doubled-die-lincoln-cent-and-its-price-performance