When your at/or working a Coin Show....

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Beefer518, Oct 28, 2017.

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  1. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    ...and you're hoping/planning to sell/trade, what can you expect from most dealers in your experiences? I'm going to a show tomorrow, and was planning on taking a few coins I really don't want to hopefully trade. What kind of offers should I expect as reasonable? I would guess most dealers use greysheet bid as a reference, but how far back do they usually offer? Coins I'm interesting in trading are graded, and range up to $1500. I may also bring a few raw coins, but haven't decided.

    Two coins I'm definitely bringing are my NGC MS-66 CAC 1930-D LWC, and an NGC MS-70 2016-W Burnished $50 Gold Eagle. I'm more interested in trading then selling, as I have certain coins I'm after, and I think I'd do better trading then outright trying to sell.
     
    Beefer518, Oct 28, 2017
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  3. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    I can't answer you question but I got away from the page as soon as I could. That flashing avatar is just too distracting and annoying.
     
    sakata, Oct 28, 2017
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  4. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    I don't enjoy selling at coin shows. Something about having 30 dealers poo-poo my coins just puts a damper on the whole experience.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
    C-B-D, Oct 28, 2017
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  5. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    I changed it the other day, and I've been wondering if it's annoying. Looks like I'll be changing it back... :panda:
     
    Beefer518, Oct 28, 2017
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  6. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty thick-skinned, and as I'm interested in a series with low-demand, I think that may work in my favor (early commems).
     
    Beefer518, Oct 28, 2017
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  7. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't say I'm thin skinned. But seriously, I have $100-$500 coins to sell that are PCGS certified. I ask under market value on most of them, and I don't get any good vibes from most of these dealers. So when I go to shows, I strictly buy unless a dealer flat out asks me, "Got any for sale?" Which some do.
     
    C-B-D, Oct 28, 2017
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  8. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Dealers are generally at shows to make sales. If they’re buying anything, they’ll want it super discounted. Trading is better because it also lets them remove inventory. I recommend doing this at smaller shows where tables don’t cost so much and dealers aren’t trying to first make their few hundred dollars back. Please let us know how it goes.
     
    Seattlite86, Oct 28, 2017
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  9. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    If a dealer is poo-pooing your coins, he must be hard up for something to do.
     
    Santinidollar, Oct 28, 2017
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  10. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Your experiences can vary greatly between shows and dealers. Some can be nice to deal with while others are flat out jerks. I have run into all kinds, but it is definitely worth it to make the rounds and test out as many dealers as possible. At my last show I must have shown a few coins to 10 people before the 11th finally bought them. Yes some talked down to me while others politely declined, but the fact that I was able to sell the coins made up for any hassles.

    I would recommend taking a variety of items with you to sell/trade (basically all the items you no longer want to keep) since you never know who will be interested in something. For example, I brought a 5 oz ATB in PCGS SP 70 to my last show. A few dealers gave me a funny look but one of the bigger ones that normally pays under greysheet found a similar piece on eBay and bought the coin for a fair price.

    Your burnished gold coin might be a similar case to the ATB. You’ll get some dealers offering melt or even under melt (yep even for a 70 non bullion coin). Don’t give up and seek out more offers. Eventually you’ll find the right offer.

    And since you are willing to trade, I can see some being more willing to work with you. One dealer from whom I purchased a coin gave me a good offer on the Morgans and Washington quarters that I was selling.

    In general have an idea of what your items are worth and don’t feel pressured to lower your expectations.

    Most importantly, have fun looking at coins and remember to trust your instincts.
     
    ddddd, Oct 28, 2017
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  11. SilverMike

    SilverMike Well-Known Member

    Let us know how things go please!
     
    SilverMike, Oct 28, 2017
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  12. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins

    I've been more successful at trading, rather than at selling.
     
    green18, Oct 28, 2017
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  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I think some have misconceptions about coin shows when it comes to why people, meaning dealers and collectors alike, attend them. With dealers, make no mistake they attend them to buy and sell. Coin shows are where dealers do most of their business. That's the only reason they are willing to pay travel expenses which are often quite high and table fees which are often also quite high. For a dealer to attend a 2-4 day (when you account for the early bird day) coin show it can easily cost him a couple thousand dollars or more. Just for that 1 show. So why is he willing to spend that much money ? Because that's where does most of his business !

    Take early bird days for example. Typically only dealers attend them as specifically aside for the dealers, but collectors can sometimes attend if they are willing to pay the fees. And early bird days are usually a flurry of activity with a great deal of buying and selling being done. It is not unheard of for more buying and selling to occur on that 1 day than rest of the entire show. And 99+% of it takes place between dealers because as a general rule few collectors attend due to the fees.

    During the rest of the show buying and selling between dealers continue to occur, but of course buying and selling also takes place between collectors and dealers, just not as much as is taking place between dealer and dealer. Overall, and I mean over the course of an entire year and encompassing all venues, meaning coin shows, his brick and mortar shop if he has one, online sales, mail sales, and auctions, 80% or more of a dealer's business is done with other dealers. Collectors only account for about 20% or less of a dealer's business. And this is true year after year.

    You know without a doubt that dealers are more than willing to sell coins to collectors at shows, but are dealers willing to buy coins from collectors at coin shows ? Absolutely, they'll fall all over themselves to buy coins from you. Assuming of course that: 1- you have some coins they want to buy - however, most collectors don't. And 2 - assuming that you are willing to sell them at a realistic price.

    So what do I mean by those two things ? It's pretty simple, coins they want to buy can be defined as coins that are hard to find or in great demand. What they don't want are common coins, they already have too many of those. They'll still buy them, but only at discounted prices because they know they are going to have a hard time selling them. Otherwise they would have sold the ones they already have. And since what most collectors have are common coins, that's why they think coin shows are bad places to try and sell their coins. In effect they are right, they just don't usually understand why they are right.

    And that brings us to what I termed as realistic prices. So what exactly are realistic prices ? You can also call them fair prices or real world prices, but market prices is probably the most accurate. Simply put they are not what most collectors think they are. Collectors tend to think of market prices being what they paid for a coin, or at least in that neighborhood. But in reality that is not the case at all. market prices are, always have been, and probably always will be, determined by the electronic dealer markets. The electronic dealer markets are where any dealer who is a member, and most are member of at least 1 and some all of them, where a dealer can go and buy a given coin in any given grade from another dealer any day of the week - at the current price, the current low Ask.

    Now you also have to understand that there are many Asks (asking prices) at any given time. Some may be quite high and they are usually just ignored, but there is always 1 low Ask. And, there is also 1 high Bid, and many lower bids. But the current market price is determined by that low Ask and that high Bid - always. And it can change from day to day. And all dealers know this.

    So, given that, if you are a collector trying to sell a coin to a dealer and you are asking X dollars for your coin, but he knows he can go and buy that same coin same grade for 20-30-40% or more less any time he wants - why in the world would he want to buy it from you ? That would be like you going to the most expensive furniture store in town looking to buy a new TV and paying X dollars for it - when you know for a fact you can go across town and buy the same TV for 20-30-40% less. Who's gonna do that ? And that is why market prices are set, determined, by the electronic dealer market.

    So no, when you go and try to sell a coin to a dealer, the dealer is not trying to rip you off, he's just not being stupid. He knows what the current market price is, the problem is, you the collector, usually don't. You think the coin is worth what you paid for it or at least somewhere around that. But it isn't, not in the real world. In the real world prices may have fallen by 50% since you bought that coin, or you may have simply paid too much for it. Or the reverse may be true and it may be worth a good bit more than what you paid, but that seldom happens.

    In the real world, at any given time any given coin in any given grade is only worth whatever the lowest asking price is on the electronic dealer markets. Sure, you can pay more than that for a coin, but that doesn't mean it's worth that much, it just means you were willing to pay that much.

    And that's why what happens at coin shows - happens. You, a collector, want to sell coins at a coin show - you can do it all day long at every show. But first, have something they want to buy, and be willing to sell it for a market price. That's the way the world works.

    And yeah, before somebody says it, I know there are unscrupulous people out there, people/dealers who will try and rip you off. They exist in all walks of life. But I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about the good guys, the guys who will offer you a fair price for your coins. You just have to know what a fair price really is - that's your responsibility. And that's also how you can tell the good guys from the bad guys.
     
    GDJMSP, Oct 29, 2017
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  14. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    I wonder... do you get a higher cash value for trades, as opposed to selling it to dealers outright for cash? Because if you do, then that may be worthwhile depending on the coin you're looking to trade for. I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask each dealer, since dealers will be getting a coin(s) plus cash for the trade from you, instead of having to fork over cash for a coin from you. The difference in scenario may be reason enough that they may want to do this. But that's all conjecture...
     
    iPen, Oct 29, 2017
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  15. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Yes. Sometimes they'll say something like, "I will give you $150 for that quarter, or $175 in trade."
     
    TheFinn, Oct 29, 2017
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  16. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    What is a 1930-D LWC? I have been wracking my brain trying to figure out the acronym.
     
    TheFinn, Oct 29, 2017
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  17. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Lincoln Wheat Cent
     
    C-B-D, Oct 29, 2017
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  18. H8_modern

    H8_modern Attracted to small round-ish art

    I didn’t know what LWC was either. I’m pretty sure nobody would be confused if it was stated 1930-D Lincoln or just cent.
     
    H8_modern, Oct 29, 2017
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  19. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    I really thought everyone would know that! Sorry about the headache! :inpain::nurse:
     
    Beefer518, Oct 29, 2017
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  20. H8_modern

    H8_modern Attracted to small round-ish art

    Just made me feel dumb. Not the first time today :)
     
    H8_modern, Oct 29, 2017
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  21. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    Well, it went pretty ok.

    I got there about 1.5 hours before they closed (had kid stuff to deal with in the AM), and about 3/4 of the dealers had already left.

    First table at the door was a very nice dealer. He told me had been trying to give away a silver dollar to someone, but nobody could answer his trivia question. "How many pennies has the US Mint produced in it's 225 year history?" At first, I made a face, and made that "p-shaw" sound cartoon characters make, but then I realized what he was asking, and said - "Zero". He swore I was the first person to get it right today, including the dealers he asked. Next thing, he's handing me an 1885 (P) Morgan (VF I'd say)! That paid for my gas and tolls, so I was happy.

    Got to talking to him, and asked if he was looking for anything, and showed him what I brought. He liked my 2016-W Burnished $50 Eagle, and felt my asking price was fair, and next thing I knew, I had a nice chunk of cash in my hand (with a small profit).

    Unfortunately, he didn't have any coins I was there for (trying to finish my Early Silver Commemorative set), and because it was getting late, I politely shook his hand, and excused myself to hit the rest of the dealers.

    With crisp bills in my hand, I went hunting for any of my 9 missing CSC (Commemorative Silver Coins, I think).

    There were 3 dealers that had coins I needed. One was the Antietam, but it was a raw lesser grade (about high VF to Low XF), marked as AU. While the price was fair, and correct for what I felt it graded, I passed.

    Next up was a PCGS Hawaiian, graded MS Details - Cleaned. While cleaned slabbed coins are not what I am looking for for my set, the Hawaiian would be the exception due to price. Trouble was, the reverse looked like it was cleaned in a metal-working shop in a high school. It was sad to see what some people do in attempts to 'improve' a coin. :( It didn't help that this dealer was one of the aforementioned "I'm going to poo-poo on all your coins you want to sell or trade" types, and not to mentioned he kept trying to tell me how impossible it is to find a coin as old as the Hawaiian (1928) that hasn't been cleaned. I was embarrassed for him to say the least.

    Last was the dealer tucked away in the corner, packing up his stuff. Nice guy, showed me his wares (even though he had packed most of it up already), and I ended up buying his NGC 1928 Hawaiian. :happy:

    Now, if you're wanting to know the grade, and see the coin, you have to check out my other thread - GTG: 1928 Hawaiian Commemorative.

    Overall, I was happy with the day, and now own something I didn't expect to when I woke up!
     
    Beefer518, Oct 29, 2017
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