When you pay with PayPal, here's what happens:

This is a long article from www.testosteronepit.com -- a few surprises for the unwary.

I Just Got PayPal’s New Absolutely-No-Privacy-Ever Policy
Tuesday, April 1, 2014 at 1:00AM

Sunday, when people had other things to do and weren’t supposed to pay attention, PayPal sent its account holders an innocuous-sounding email with the artfully bland title, “Notice of Policy Updates.” PayPal didn’t want people to read it – lest they come away thinking that the NSA, which runs the most expansive spying dragnet in history, is by comparison a group of choirboys.

The email started with corporate blah-blah-blah on privacy, that PayPal was “constantly” changing things “to give you more of what you want and improve your experience using us.”

Got it. This is going to be for your own good.

The email further discourages you from diving into it: So “this might not be your favorite stuff to read... but if you are interested take a look.” And this having gone out on a Sunday: “if you have other pressing things to do we’ll understand.” The click-through ratio of that link to these policy changes must have been near absolute zero. So I clicked on it.

Once on that page, you have to dig through some dry verbiage before you get to what they cynically call their “Privacy Policy.” Turns out, PayPal is a giant data hog.

It already has the information you hand over when you sign up, including your name, “detailed personal information such as date of birth,” address, phone number, banking and/or credit card information. It further collects information about all “your transactions and your activities.”

When you get on a PayPal site or use its services, it collects “information sent to us by your computer, mobile phone or other access device.” This “includes but is not limited to” (so these are just examples): “data about the pages you access, computer IP address, device ID or unique identifier, device type, geo-location information, computer and connection information, mobile network information, statistics on page views, traffic to and from the sites, referral URL, ad data, and standard web log data and other information.”

You read correctly: “and other information” – anything it can get.

PayPal also collects personal data by putting cookies, web beacons (“to identify our users and user behavior”), and “similar technologies” on your device so that you can be tracked 24/7 even if you’re not using PayPal’s services, and even if you’re not on any of its sites.

Wait, “similar technologies?” By clicking on another link, you find out that they include pernicious “flash cookies,” newfangled “HTML 5 cookies,” and undefined “other web application software methods.” Unlike cookies, they “can operate across all of your browsers.” And you can’t get rid of these spy technologies or block them through your browser the way you get rid of or block cookies. You have to jump through hoops to deal with them, if they can be dealt with at all.

In addition, PayPal sweeps up any information “from or about you in other ways,” such as when you contact customer support and tell them stuff, or when you respond to a survey (Just Say No), or when you interact “with members of the eBay Inc. corporate family or other companies.” Yup, it sweeps up information even when you interact with other companies!

It may also “obtain information about you from third parties such as credit bureaus and identity verification services.” And it may “evaluate your computer, mobile phone or other access device to identify any malicious software or activity.” So they’re snooping around your devices.

And when you download or use PayPal’s apps to your smartphone, or access its “mobile optimized sites,” it collects location data along with a host of other data on your mobile device, including the unique identifier that ties it to you personally in order to manipulate search results and swamp you with location-based advertising “and other personalized content,” or whatever.

After vacuuming up all this information “from or about you,” PayPal will then “combine your information with information we collect from other companies” and create a voluminous, constantly growing dossier on you that you will never be able to check into.

Who all gets your personal information that PayPal collects? You guessed it.

First, it defines “personal information.” Turns out, much of your personal information is not “personal information”: any information that PayPal has “made anonymous” – we already know how anonymous that really is – is not “personal information,” and thus can be freely shared with or sold to whomever. And it shares the remaining “personal information” with:

• eBay and its affiliates
• Contractors that “help with,” among other things, “marketing and technology services”
• Financial outfits (such as GE Capital) that help decide, for example, if you should receive pre-approved credit-card offers
• Credit bureaus and collection agencies, which get your account information
• Companies PayPal might merge with or be acquired by. There goes your entire dossier. You can’t stop it from being sold to the new entity, which might be a Chinese company.
• A basket of our favorite law enforcement and government agencies and “other third parties pursuant to a subpoena, court order, or other legal process....”

You can’t opt out of PayPal’s spy apparatus.

You can only opt out of receiving their ads and pitches. And activating that “do not track” function in your browser to keep PayPal off your back? No way José. “We do not currently respond to DNT signals,” it says laconically.

So, if you don’t like being surveilled like that, you’re still free to close your PayPal account. But that’s not going to wipe out the information PayPal has collected “from or about you,” and its automatic systems continues to collect data through cookies, beacons, and “similar technologies,” and through the sophisticated spy capabilities that are part of any smartphone worth its salt [hilarious video.... iPhone 5nSa].

PayPal will simply mark your account as “closed” and you can’t get into it anymore, but it will “retain personal information from your account for a certain period of time” – probably forever – to do all sorts things, including “take other actions as required or permitted by law.” Yup, as permitted by law. It won’t do anything illegal with it. That’s the only promise. Alas, there aren’t exactly a lot of legal restrictions in the US on what companies can do with personal data.

PayPal is not unique. They’re all doing it. They’re part of the enormously hyped bubble of Big Data whose business model is to collect and monetize your personal information, which has become part of a new asset class. And seeing this, the NSA is dying of data envy.

But government agencies are already on a roll with off-the-shelf surveillance technologies, and they justify them with peculiar rationales: According to the LA Police Department, anyone driving a car in the greater Los Angeles Metropolitan area is automatically part of a vast criminal investigation!

 

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A bit late to be posting April Fool's jokes, Doug.

 

Here is the actual paypal link regarding user data collection.
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/privacy-full#Collection_of_Personal_Information

 

Here's the important part of non_cents' link:

Information we collect automatically: When you visit the PayPal website or use PayPal Services, we collect information sent to us by your computer, mobile phone or other access device. The information sent to us includes but is not limited to the following: data about the pages you access, computer IP address, device ID or unique identifier, device type, geo-location information, computer and connection information, mobile network information, statistics on page views, traffic to and from the sites, referral URL, ad data, and standard web log data and other information. We also collect anonymous information through our use of cookies and web beacons (visit How we use Cookies and Similar Technologies for more information).

Information you provide to us: We may collect and store any information you enter on the PayPal website or you provide to us in context of using our site, applications, services, or tools.

When you visit the PayPal website or use PayPal Services, we also collect information about your transactions and your activities. In addition, if you open a PayPal account or use PayPal Services, we may collect the following types of information:

• Contact information, such as your name, address, phone, email and other similar information.
• Financial information, such as the full bank account numbers and/or credit card numbers that you link to your PayPal account or give us when you use PayPal Services.
• Detailed personal information such as your date of birth or national ID number.

We may also collect information from or about you in other ways, such as through your contact with our customer support team, your results when you respond to a survey, and your interactions with members of the eBay Inc. corporate family or other companies. Additionally, for quality and training purposes or for its own protection, PayPal may monitor or record its telephone conversations with you or anyone acting on your behalf. By communicating with PayPal, you acknowledge that your communication may be overheard, monitored, or recorded without further notice or warning.

Information from other sources: We may also obtain information about you from third parties such as credit bureaus and identity verification services.

You may choose to provide us with access to certain personal information stored by third parties such as social media sites (e.g., Facebook and Twitter). The information we may receive varies by site and is controlled by that site. By associating an account managed by a third party with your PayPal account and authorizing PayPal to have access to this information, you agree that PayPal may collect, store and use this information in accordance with this Privacy Policy.

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So North Korea doesn't believe there's terabytes of data mining going on? Well, he wouldn't be the first trusting soul.

Wait until the IRS subpoenas PayPal records and files. Unfortunately, PayPal is a necessary evil if you want to transact any business without a monumental hassle.

I like the part where PayPal admits that even if you close your account, they retain the data already collected. I have no further comment. Good luck.

 

Doug,

I hope your insurance is paid up. Pay-pal doesn't like people disseminating this type of info. You can expect a visit from some very large guys with very small senses of humor.

 

It's about the same as it has always been. They are still working on collecting your DNA from keyboards.

 

Just like social media...the extent of your digital footprint limits your privacy. The more you are online, the less privacy you have and will have in the future. If you think making up aliases, dummy accounts, etc. protects you, you are fooling yourself. Your personal info is a very valuable commodity.

 

This sounds like it would be a great scenario for the tv show, "Person of Interest".......

Sinister evildoer buys PayPal and wreaks havoc!

Chris

 

A company that transfers money on your behalf collects information about the accounts it's transferring money from and to? Golly!

A Web application collects the information that every Web browser sends with every Web request? Double golly!

A huge company with many millions of customers collects information about those customers in order to target ads, identify patterns indicating fraud, and satisfy legal requirements? Fetch me my smelling salts.

Said company does not plan to torch all that data, hugely reducing the company's value, in case it gets acquired? Well, that makes no business sense at all.

Perhaps we should all move back to small towns and start doing all our business with untraceable cash. I'm sure the neighbors would be happy to look away as we walk to and from the store, and the storekeeper would be happy to wear a blindfold while he rings up our purchases...

 

The LESS people know about you, the BETTER OFF you are. Ask the folks who spent a year cleaning up after an identity theft. Go back just 20 years, nobody knew what that term meant. Giant corporations like Target and Yahoo did not have hundreds if not thousands of employees trying to keep ahead of the bad guys.

Move to the next level. DHS can search your premises without a warrant, "they" can detain you up to 30 days without filing charges, your cellphone can place you at a crime scene, your private/deleted emails can be teased out, one by one.

More proof? Read this morning's revelation -- the Louisiana guy who left his baby in the overheated car (and the baby died a horrible death). His confiscated computer reveals he had Googled the amount of time it takes children to DIE in overheated cars. Kind of nails the papa, doesn't it? He's toast. And so it goes.

 

1. Buy the cheapest computer you can find that has internet capabilities
2. Put the settings at the minimum level consistent with doing business
3. Set up a bank account that is only used for pay-pal
4. Never the use the cheap computer for doing searches (once you find what you want, type that address directly into the address box on the browser).
5. Only turn the computer on when you want to make a purchase, go directly the address for the purchase you want to make, and turn the computer off when you are not making a purchase
6. Use a different internet provider from that which you use for everyday use (especially for your smart phone) and set all new aliases
7. Never use any sniping apps.

Not perfect, but may help to minimize your exposure.

 

Any and all activity you perform on any and all computing devices is going to get tracked.

It is the nature of the Web Beast.

If folks do not want this then the ONLY cure is to ot use a computing device of any type which has internet capability.

I could start right now but its way too late since everything they want to know has already been collected and is used against me on a daily basis.

I get "directed" to coin sites on Facebook or web searches via "random" advertising?
Right.

It is targeted advertising which basically amounts to the exact same thing of yesteryear where you responded to some piece of junk mail only to receive untold tons of more junk mail!

It is the nature of the Capitalism Beast.

I am a bit bummed by what is collected about me but, in all reality, there is little that can be done about it at this point in time.

 

19Lyds understands the problem. It is also the nature of the Totaliarianism Beast. To really get it, you have to follow the money, and recognize income inequality and the rape of the middle class, and the greatest transfer of wealth in generations.

It's all about money, not power. Savage the money first, and power will follow.

But 19Lyds is way ahead of his peers. If I was 40 instead of 70, I'd probably get myself in big trouble fighting the system. Now I'm content to survive a few more years, and provide for my dear but clueless heirs. Capitalism as presently practiced is toxic, but once the predators get a taste, there's scant chance of reform.

 

doug444, if we knew each other in "real life," we would surely be good friends. Our country is gone to crud and our totalitarian government (and the corporations who I believe run it) are something straight out of George Orwell's 1984. It is scary that one cannot even have a phone conversation or make a purchase without the government knowing about it. It is truly a scary day and age in which we live. My motto: Make sure you have your beans, bullets, bullion, and bandaids, because I just can't see the current path ending well for our country who walks it...

 

Attention, CT-er's: Gnomey gets it, too. I don't know how old you are, Gnomey, but those of us from the Vietnam era have watched this country go to hell in just one generation. Most of the problem came from each succeeding runaway Congress and weak (despite all their huffing and puffing) Presidents, and, spending FAR more than we took in.

I could reveal the rest of the problem, but would get flagged. The damage is done, and I don't see how we get out of trouble, as a nation. The best many of us can do is keep a low profile and hope for the best. I do not support either political party.

 

If the direction goes much farther, i will have to move the thread to general discussions, but I will stay generalized in my comments. You can not blame the situations you fore see on the government nor politicians alone. The majority of the populations belongs to Facebook, Linkedin, Twitter, Amazon, various Clouds, and they are not only happy to give out details or info, or provide photos with embedded gps info, and subscribe to every sharing app possible. The government has a hard time even trying to keep up with new technology and regulations. So until these people, and there are multitudes on this site like any other website that probably uses several of these stop, it will increase. For my real estate rentals, I now regularly check these sources for applications. I often wonder how a person thinks their info is private. Since myself , and you two are on the net, you are in the stew also. If it is any consolation, China, Russia, and North Korea, etc. is just one technological event ( How to avoid web blockage) from being with the US. Of course they think if it gets bad, they can make it go away. Sure.

Keep things general, very general!

 

Another media corporation shows its true colors. Just hit the wires:

Facebook Inc. gave social media skeptics cause for alarm this weekend after it came to light that the Internet company manipulated users’ News Feeds as part of a social science experiment...(more/CBS News)

Ever try to get "out" of Facebook? Is this your reality?

DesertGem - just curious. There are draconian anti-discrimination laws of every kind in every State. Could you be sued for refusing to rent to someone based on what you read about them in social media? What ARE legal grounds for refusing to rent to someone nowadays?

 

I don't know about every state, but my rentals are in Arizona. there are federal housing laws which all states must follow, but as long as the owner does that, and the other regs the state requires, legally you should win if sued ( as anyone can do to anyone). You can make exceptions if applicants are poor risks to complete and follow the conditions of the lease. We use Arizona specific forms, check the arizona public court records, references, etc. perhaps you would be surprised at how many applicants send all of their social references attached. I think google attaches them automatically on gmail. In case you are interested :
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/top-10-landlord-legal-responsibilities-arizona.html.

 

If you REALLY, REALLY give it some thought...............George Orwell described today's exact environment with the exception of that little HAL 9000 Eye stuck on every wall of the house.

The "EYE" has been fashioned into a hand held device or computer system. Otherwise, it's really there.

And the thing of it is, just like in the Sixth Sense "They don't even know they're Dead", the people in todays society "Don't even know they are being watched and tracked" unless, of course, the "thought police" want you to know it.

Stop having babies.

 

Yep, take yourself out of the gene pool. That'll teach 'em to send you targeted ads!