What's up Hun?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ancientnoob, Dec 13, 2014.

  1. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    I am really enjoying collecting the coins of the Hunnic Tribes. I really feel that with little market interest even very rare coins in good condition can be had relatively cheaply. I spotted this one for sale from a very reputable dealer of eastern coins. I have never before seen this particular type and felt I needed this Hun for my collection.

    I was completely taken back by the this fine silver piece. This coin, with a marvelous, nearly complete and centered bust on the obverse. Nice sharp details front and back made the coin was irresistible.

    Apparently, Mitchiner considered these coins rare, but the dealer states that they have turned up somewhat often in recent years. This is a very good example of the type, for sure. I suppose with that being said, you envision how crappy(I believe the correct numismatic term is Crude) these coins are regularly.

    The Huns as a whole are not just one people but rather a confederation of different semi-nomadic peoples inhabiting Central Asia. Seemingly appearing out of nowhere, they forced the collapse of the native Indian Gupta Empire.
    This coin was minted by either the Hephthalites or the Gurjaras who might have also been a branch of the Hunnic Group. Minted between AD 550-600, the coin is described as the bust imitating that of the Persian Shah Peroz I (r. AD 457-484). Although the clear characteristic of the bust look nothing like Peroz. I wouldn't be surprised if we were actually looking at the true face of a Hunnic chief whose name is lost to time. Very interesting!

    North and Central India
    Hephthalites or Gurjaras
    Anonymous (s.AD 550-600)
    AR Drachm 23.8 mm x 4.00 grams
    Obverse: Crowned Bust of Peroz with winged skull cap. Unreadable crude legend.
    Reverse: Crude Zoroastrian fire altar. Flanked by two attendants.
    ref: MACW 1479-1482
    Note: Rare. Beautiful Well centered nearly complete example.
    HunCentralIndia.jpg
     
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  3. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    I would also add that it is a very early detailed ancestor of the Gadhaiya Paisa type series...
     
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  4. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    i pitty the fool who doesn't like this coin!

    [​IMG]
     
  5. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Very nice!
     
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  6. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Very good specimen AncientNoob ! I think indeed this is a quite early type. If you look at the general design and shape of the head this is likely a direct predecessor of the Chavadas of Gujarat types. Interesting is the pronounced round cheek. That is something you see in the later coins of the Pratihara-Pala.
    To keep your coin company a recent aquisition of mine. I believe it is a hunnic imitation of a sasanian design, but did not make a certain attribution yet.
    (AR 24 mm, 3.15 grams)
    SassanoHunnicW2.jpg
     
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  7. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    And to illustrate the general crappyness of these coins, here a close relative of yours.
    ChadavaCrudeW.jpg
     
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  8. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    Wonderful examples! The first one is interesting and definetly looks likes Peroz, but the coin is new to me. That looks like Brahmi in the right obverse field. I would like to see this coin in hand.

    I have a decent example of the Pratihara-Pala variation you mentioned.


    Pratihara Supremacy
    India
    Pratikara - Pala (780-980 AD)
    21.5 mm x 4.13 g
    Pratikara-Pala780-980_opt.jpg
     
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  9. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    @THCoins

    I am interested in knowing what date is assigned to your second coin. I have this which might fit in between.

    Hephthalites
    Peroz Imitation c. 550-600 AD
    AR Drachm 23.5 mm x 4.11g
    Pre-Saurashtran Series


    Hephthalite600_opt.jpg
     
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  10. Eng

    Eng Senior Eng

    awesome new coin MasterNoob, i'm glad we have many different kinds of Ancient collectors here.
     
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  11. JBGood

    JBGood Collector of coinage Supporter

    Kushan Empire Soter Megas.JPG

    I'm probably way far afield here but how do these folks, Kushan Empire, relate, if at all to the Hunnic Tribes? Same geography, no?

    It is highly likely I don't know what I'm talking about, I just like these different looking coins.
     
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  12. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    The Kushan indeed ruled the same region, but a few centuries earlier. However, some Kushan coin designs were perpetuated over centuries also by hunnic tribes.
    My Peroz derivative indeed would fall closely in time with the others you posted Noob. Reliable dating of the different type unfortunately is not possible. So you see term like pre-Saurashtra.
    The inscription on my other coin is not Brahmi, but (corrupted) Pahlavi. Unfortunately this coin has just been condemned on Zeno as not a hunnic imitation, but a modern imitation. But if it is, it is a very nice fake, and i am certainly going to keep it.
     
  13. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    To add another Hunnic:
    This is a copper uniface unit of a king who is often referred to as Jayatu. This because that is inscribed in Brahmi in front of the face of the king. In mine only parts of this are visible. This is however certainly not the name of the king for "Jayatu" means "victorious" in Sanskrit and is a term on coins just as generic as "soteros" in greek inscriptions. Exact dating of his rule is unknown, but likely post-Toramana.
    JayatuSmall.jpg
     
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  14. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    Exactly! Honestly I thought coin #1 looked funny, that's why I wanted to see it in hand.
     
  15. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    This looks like it might be somehow related to this...

    Buhkrablack_opt.jpg
     
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  16. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Yes, and no. These are all in a line with sasanian infleunces. The bukhara one i would consider a direct descendant. Jayatu has far more Indian influences. For example, the crescent on to of the head may look similar. But on yours it is derived from the sasanian crown. On mine it is asymbol of Shiva. For example earlier coins of king Harshavardhana show the same headdress.
     
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