OK, guys I've been slacking. You might recall the first 5 coins of this submissions discussed in prior threads. Basically, the coins were submitted raw to PCGS at FUN this past January. The game is to guess what PCGS graded the coin (or the reason why they didn't grade it). The pics are pretty accurate. If anything the reverse is a bit darker in hand and similar in color to the obverse. I bought the coin raw from HC Hamling, a fairly well known EAC dealer, in 2005 for $65. What will PCGS say?
I'll go VF-35. Nice coin but I wonder if a little dirt and grime was removed at some point. Looks like it should have a bit more than what it has now.
Not to familiar with Large Cents so I am guessing at what I can see.. I would think VF possibly cleaned. I see some dents in the rim..is that enough for PCGS to say Rim Damage?
I'd say it's defifinitely been cleaned but not harshly so. And I doubt the rim dings and minor rim bruise would stop them from grading it. I'd say 30, they probably said 35.
For starters, the color/wear/cleanness of it sets off alarm bells to me. Second, you can see some remnants of dirt and/or discoloration in the ear and the hair folds behind the neck, as well as in other places around the coin.
Ah..Thanks Merc! Saw the ear, didn't know what that was. Nice catch on the hair folds. Another quick question, many books/authors state they believe 90% of graded copper coins over 100 years old have been cleaned at some point. Do you agree?
It's not just copper, it's all older coins. But there are many different forms of cleaning, some harmful and some not harmful. And it is important to differentiate between the two by using the correct terms - cleaning, and harsh/improper cleaning. The reason that it is accpeted as a fact that such a high percentage of older coins have been cleaned at one time or another is because for centuries it was the accepted practice for collectors to clean their coins. Even museums cleaned their coins. The Smithsonian, to this day, cleans their coins. But it is some of the methods they used to clean them that was bad. The most common method was to simply wipe the coins off with a cloth - very bad. Examples of acceptable methods for cleaning are dipping, either in a coin dip (when done properly), acetone or distilled water. Any use of a cloth, brush or other object (regardless of how soft it is) in actual contact with the coin is unacceptable by today's standards.
So it was cleaned, big deal almost all pre 1970 coins have been cleaned along the way. Why didn't PCGS grade it ???
He hasn't told us if it was graded or not. I also strongly disagree with your statement that almost all pre-1970 coins have been cleaned.
I would say the vast majority of pre 1870 coins have been cleaned. 1970 is stretching it, IMO. When it comes to cleaning, and IMO, the key is being able to tell "market acceptable" from "not market acceptable". While all but one of coins that I've shared from this group of 10 (you will recall coin #5 got a Genuine because of a rim bruise) weren't very helpful in this regard -- they pretty much graded what I expected -- the next few were eye opening to me. To say any more at this point would give things away, and I want to give some other folks time to weigh in....
PCGS graded the coin XF 40. I thought the coin would bodybag for recoloring -- the even brown color despite wear is the giveaway for me -- and was surprised when it came back in 40 plastic, or if it came back it would have been net graded down to 35 or 30 for it.
