What makes a coin MS?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by sketcherpbr, Aug 31, 2008.

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  1. sketcherpbr

    sketcherpbr Enthusiast

    While reading a guide to grading Indian Head cents, I noticed that the basis for an MS-60 example was "No trace of wear. Significant contact marks or spotting. Color may not be original." :confused:
    So I wonder, is this the standard for ALL coins? I have a 1886 Morgan that clears this definition easily, but some of you said it was mid-AU. What do you guys think?
     
    sketcherpbr, Aug 31, 2008
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  3. AdamL

    AdamL Well-Known Member

    I didn't see the Morgan you posted. But if it is AU there is wear on it. If there is no trace of wear then it is MS. The wear is the difference.
     
    AdamL, Aug 31, 2008
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  4. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    The key to MS is it must have no wear , contact marks lower the MS grade but still keep it MS . Your '86 Morgan must have had some circulation wear , even the slightest amout lowers it from MS to AU .
    rzage
     
    rzage, Aug 31, 2008
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  5. sketcherpbr

    sketcherpbr Enthusiast

    here's the morgan, I couldn't find any wear. probably because it's been in a tube of morgans since it was taken out of the mint bag...thanks for the clarifier guys.
     

    Attached Files:

    sketcherpbr, Aug 31, 2008
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  6. sketcherpbr

    sketcherpbr Enthusiast

    dunno why those aren't working...
     

    Attached Files:

    sketcherpbr, Aug 31, 2008
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  7. AdamL

    AdamL Well-Known Member

    I still can't see the pics.
     
    AdamL, Aug 31, 2008
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  8. sketcherpbr

    sketcherpbr Enthusiast

    sketcherpbr, Aug 31, 2008
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  9. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    sketcherpbr, there is something funky (the technical kind of funky) with pics posted in the general discussion area. Most cannot see them, but some can. You would be better off posting you coin topics in an area other than "general discussion".
     
    rlm's cents, Aug 31, 2008
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  10. sketcherpbr

    sketcherpbr Enthusiast

    ok, well I've posted them in the "What it's Worth" forum, a long time ago, but that link should take you to it....if it works....hopefully it does = \
     
    sketcherpbr, Aug 31, 2008
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  11. AdamL

    AdamL Well-Known Member

    I beleive that I see the traces of wear which caused people to grade your coin AU. Although it is hard to tell without the coin in hand sometimes. Its a pretty coin though. Are those pictures scans or actual photographs?
     
    AdamL, Sep 1, 2008
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  12. sketcherpbr

    sketcherpbr Enthusiast

    well, the top ones are scans, but the ones below are pictures. thanks! it really is a nice coin.
     
    sketcherpbr, Sep 1, 2008
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  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The easiest places to see wear on this coin is on the reverse. I have underlined the letters in the legends and circled some of the areas where I see wear, or breaks in the luster, on the coin.

    Let's look at the legends first. Look at the ITED in UNITED and compare those letters with the UN. See how dark the tops of the ITED are and how the UN still shows the luster ? That is caused by slight wear. Next look at the ER & C in AMERICA compared to the other letters beside them - same thing. Then look at the eagle's right wing tip, those dark areas are where the luster has been broken due to light wear. Same with the circled leaves and eagle's breast.

    Now some are probably going to say, what about weak strike ? Well the '86-P is known for being sharply struck with frosty surfaces and excellent luster. While on this coin it is easy to see the breaks in the luster, and there are quite a few of them, as I have illustrated. Thus my grade of AU53.

    Double ckick on the pic to see it blown up.
     

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    GDJMSP, Sep 1, 2008
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  14. sketcherpbr

    sketcherpbr Enthusiast

    wow, very helpful GDJMSP! Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it. It could be the pictures that show a lack of luster, but I don't have the coin on me right now so I'll just have to concede to AU-53, even though it pains me = \
     
    sketcherpbr, Sep 1, 2008
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  15. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Still a beautiful example of a over 100 year old Morgan , would love to see your Peace dollar , Peace dollars are even harder to grade , thanks for sharing .
    rzage
     
    rzage, Sep 1, 2008
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  16. sketcherpbr

    sketcherpbr Enthusiast

    I'll put it up on What it's Worth shortly! Just scans though....
     
    sketcherpbr, Sep 1, 2008
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  17. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Don't feel bad GD is a very tough :whistle:but fair grader who goes by the ANA grading system and gives technicle grades , If it were Market graded by a tpg it would still be AU but probably a couple points higher AU-55 and if the luster is all there maybe even grade a 58 . JMO .
    rzage:smile:thumb::cool:
     
    rzage, Sep 1, 2008
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  18. sketcherpbr

    sketcherpbr Enthusiast

    ahhhh, dang it. the pictures at home...well, I'll put them up as soon as I get a chance, I guess! sorry rzage!
     
    sketcherpbr, Sep 1, 2008
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  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    Slight correction - the ANA system is based on market grading, NOT technical grading. And I never, ever, give a techinical grade for a coin.
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 1, 2008
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  20. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Now I'm really confused :goofer:.
    rzage:D:hail:
     
    rzage, Sep 1, 2008
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  21. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    No reason to be confused. It's quite easy to understand really. If you would compare say the PCGS grading standards and the ANA grading standards coin for coin and grade for grade, what you will find is that the ANA standards are tougher than those used by PCGS.

    This is especially true in circulated grades where the differences are hugely different. The standards for the MS grades are different as well, but to a lesser degree and in some cases (MS60 - MS64) nearly the same.

    That said, I have no doubt that NGC or PCGS would grade the coin in question as AU. But it would probably go 55 and not 53.
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 1, 2008
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