What is the difference in sales prices of these two coins?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by ddddd, Oct 3, 2021.

  1. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer Well-Known Member

    I'd like the green bean obv with the non stickered rev. The bean rev isn't eye appealing to me. But the bean obv is considerably nicer than the first.
     
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  3. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    The purpose of CAC is that it is supposed to help you avoid NGC and PCGS graded coins that are over graded or those that have been “worked on” too much. You read in the blogs about how John Albanese, the founder of the company, is “the go-to guy” whose expertise is superior to everyone else. That is the opinion of CAC’s supporters, not what Albanese says about himself.

    When it started, it was supposed to denote the coins that John Albanese, and group of associated dealers were willing to buy at unspecified prices. Since then, it has morphed into what I defined above in the minds of it’s fans.

    In truth, CAC has approved of coins that have been net graded, and, at times, there have been coins that followed “grade-flatiron” or were “off” completely. I have a file of pictures of these pieces, which fall short, in my opinion.

    I have started many times that CAC gets it right well over 90% of the time, but that’s not good enough for the “CAC community.” For them, if you don’t support the concept that it is “the industry standard,” you are a heretic. By definition, in these people’s minds, coins without the sticker fall short, even though there is a chance that CAC may not have reviewed them, or there are other experts who might disagree.
     
  4. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    The CAC on the second coin makes zero sense. Grade evaluation on a common date 64 Morgan? There's no premium there. The toning is 99.99% of the value and CAC doesnt evaluate the toning.
     
    1953 likes this.
  5. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That’s not accurate. Toning is a part of the grade they evaluate it. The only thing they ignore is plus grades
     
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  6. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I think the obverse on 1 is prettier, but like a lot of toning a little splotchy. #2 is both a creamy, uniform toning and toned reverse. Since much of this toning was done in albums, toned reverses not as common. I would easily say #2 would sell for more ignore the CAC. Not from me, I would not pay toning premiums nowadays on any coin, but technically see the difference between the two even if I believe the obverse of #1 is prettier to me.
     
  7. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    Do they though? To what end? The slab just says it is a 64. What exactly are they validating about it being a 64 that includes the *premium* for monster toning? Nothing. They may take toning into account for the grade, but that is almost irrelevant for a monster toned Morgan.
     
  8. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    No guesses.
     
  9. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    2022 Red Book says $75.00. The CAC sticker would add a bit more. Personally I am not impressed with CAC. It's the coin, not the slab, in my opinion. Good luck.
     
    1953 likes this.
  10. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    The money is all in the toning. In my opinion, coin 1 is probably a $200-$250 coin at most, with limited coverage of the toning, and low intensity of the extant toning. Coin #2 has a really beautiful coverage of toning, and it is in a color palate that most Morgan toner collectors favor. Combine that with the CAC, and I would say, probably around $800. Do I think this is what the coins “should” sell for, as opposed to what the toning market currently bears? No, they are both common coins, that have lots of examples of extremely beautiful toning. It is just my idea of what their selling potential is in today’s market. I am indifferent to #1, and really like #2.
     
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  11. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I can guarantee if they think it’s not at least market acceptable toning they won’t sticker it. Just like they won’t sticker PL, or dcam, fh, fbl etc unless they agree. The only grading aspect they ignore is the + and *.

    Toning is part of a grade as it impacts eye appeal and surfaces which is part of a grade. The whole thing is evaluated.
     
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  12. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    johnmilton, posted: "Somebody probably paid three time as much for CAC approved one.

    As for me, I am not interested in either one. It’s a common date.

    o_O:facepalm::rolleyes: :hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious: Oh boy, perhaps with uncommon color?


    SensibleSal66, posted: "CAC in my opinion is just another Company looking to capitalize on the buyer and in return, we as collector's ultimately pay the price, literally ! We get srewed again."

    Thanks for your :bookworm: opinion, I'll file it where it goes. :D
     
  13. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    Answer: The difference is the amount of the least-expensive sales price subtracted from the most expensive...and it will always be the difference...! :woot:
     
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  14. YoloBagels

    YoloBagels Well-Known Member

    Yall (even the anti-CAC) people are focusing too much on the plastic. The second coin has much more appealing/rare toning than the first one.

    Morgans with neon green toning go for much more than standard rainbow toned coins.
     
  15. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That's generally the case for anti-cac people as they have to ignore the fact its a nicer coin to dismiss cac and ill just leave it at that
     
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  16. 1953

    1953 Active Member

    This common date (almost 21 million) sold for $395.00
     

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  17. YoloBagels

    YoloBagels Well-Known Member

    A friend of mine used to own the second coin, it's one of the best toned Morgans I have ever seen. IMO, the price it went for is justified.
     
  18. YoloBagels

    YoloBagels Well-Known Member

    That kind of toning is very common especially on 1887 Morgans. I just sold a very similar one for $220.
     
    1953 likes this.
  19. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I know what it went for and I don't have any problem with it. I do think how it was sold helped it a little, but I wouldnt expect a price crash on it without that
     
  20. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    So the results were $440 and $10,408.

    This wasn’t meant to be a CAC thread but I guess that happens when a coin has one. To me the sticker doesn’t matter in this case but I know certain buyers want it. So it makes sense to spend the fee and submit a coin if selling (even if it adds one extra buyer to the pool, that would more than cover the nominal fee).

    Back to the coins, the second has better toning but I was still surprised with the final result. It did not have the look of a $10k toner, especially since it is rare to see that kind of money spent on almost any toned common date Morgan below gem level. My valuations are $1k and $5k (but I don’t have the benefit of seeing the second one in hand).
     
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  21. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    As an individual who's an avid user/collector of CAC coins, I agree with your observation that some CACed coins don't deserve the technical grade given. If you collect scarce/key coins, I believe the majority of market-graded scarce/key coins can be many grades from their technically past graded counterparts.

    We probably should remember that a CAC bean only signifies that the coin is at least average for the specific TPG grading period.

    The CACed 2nd coin could easily sell at multiples of the C.D.N. listed value, as the CAC bean is relatively inexpensive, but the market value may be appreciably greater than the C.D.N./TPG listed value, and possibly realizing an appreciably increased R.O.I.. LOL

    JMHO
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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