What is a Cistophorus?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by physics-fan3.14, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I've seen the term used many times, and it seems there is some disagreement on what they are. I can't figure out a commonality between all the coins I've seen called cistophorus. What does this term mean? Where were they minted? How were they used? Do they have some special significance? Is it a denomination? Is it a symbol?

    Please help un-confuse me.
     
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  3. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    from Forum:
    Cistophori

    The cistophorus was introduced at Pergamon sometime between 200 and 160 B.C. to provide the Attalid kingdom with a substitute for Seleucid coins and the tetradrachms of Philetairos. The denomination was also struck by other cities under Attalid control. The denomination owes its name to cista mystica, the sacred chest of Dionysus, on the obverse. It was valued at four drachms but weighed only 12.75 grams, as much as three Attic drachms (the most important weight standard of the time). Hoard evidence suggests that they did not travel outside the area which Pergamon controlled, indicating they were valued higher within that area. Cistophori continued to be minted and circulated down to the time of Hadrian, long after the kingdom was bequeathed to Rome in 133 B.C. The portrait of Augustus and later emperors replaced the cista on the obverse.
    http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1517&pos=0&sold=1

    The cista mystica was a basket used for housing sacred snakes in connection with the initiation ceremony into the cult of Bacchus (Dionysus). In the Dionysian mysteries a snake, representing the god and possibly symbolic of his phallus, was carried in a cista mystica on a bed of vine leaves. The cista in the mysteries of Isis may also have held a serpent, perhaps associated with the missing phallus of Osiris.
     
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  4. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    coinboughtaugustusPAX.jpg
    from Ephesus Augustus: He begins to promote the PAX ROMANA with this coin!
     
  5. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    So, I think this might be the root of my confusion. I thought the cistophorus featured a basket of snakes (the cista, in some form or another). But this seems to indicate that some of them don't.

    So then why are they still called cistophorus?

    For example, why is this considered a cistophorus? : https://www.forumancientcoins.com/c...fld=https://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins2/

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    That one still has a basket with a snake, however, so I can understand why it is considered at least "cistophoric-adjacent", even if it doesn't have that classic Pergamum form.
     
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  7. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    It's a denomination, weighing roughly three denarii and was an extensive series from a variety of emperors.

    This is a (fairly rare) cistophorus depicting Augustus and his Sphinx:

    SphinxCistophorus.jpg
     
  8. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    good question: "Cistophori continued to be minted and circulated down to the time of Hadrian, long after the kingdom was bequeathed to Rome in 133 B.C. The portrait of Augustus and later emperors replaced the cista on the obverse." it is a basic denomination that began with the basket but that was sometimes omitted.
     
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  9. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..that's what i thought too...albeit there's that other snake cult of the one with the beard....
     
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  10. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Beautiful! That sphinx is amazing!

    Okay, that really clears it up.

    Was this a common denomination? For example, everyone knows the denarius. Was this one that was minted in large quantities? Or was it an uncommon denomination? Was it more likely to be used in the provinces? (or even, in specific provinces, such as Pergamum and Ephesus?)
     
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  11. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..that is a nice silver coin ole RomanCollector has up for sale eh?!...:)
     
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  12. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I'll make no secret - @Romancollector 's post prompted my question because I was quite confused. His coin is beautiful - but I had no idea why it was called a "cistophorus" with no snakes.

    But now I understand.
     
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  13. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    yes very common and provincial
     
  14. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    Equivalent to 4 Greek drachmas or 3 denarii, the cistophorus were romanized by Mark Antony who kept the mystical cista on the reverse, adding above it the head of his wife Octavia:

    16DAA94E-D4EF-4502-AC70-30CF5496C395.jpeg
    CNG picture

    Octavian, the future Augustus, pushed the romanization of the cistophorus even further, this time leaving a very small place for the cista:

    AB1A24DD-BC3C-4529-B960-4D5178834B45.jpeg
    Numismatica Ars Classica picture

    He was finally the first to completely remove the famous mystic cista:

    3F15FB8C-974A-4CF9-ADA3-A1A629BF4DBC.jpeg
    CNG picture
     
  15. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..i'm with ya...:)
     
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  16. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    common one from Apameia, Phrygia I purchased from @Brian Bucklan at Bargain Bin Ancients some years ago:
    coinapameiaO.jpg coinapameaiRv.jpg
     
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  17. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Brilliant summary overview, and much appreciated.

    Do you think any of this "removal of the snake basket" was motivated by the whole "Cleopatra killed herself with a basket of asps" story?
     
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  18. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    probably not
     
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  19. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Moving into speculation, then, why was the snake basket (the cista of the cistophorus) removed? Were they trying to convert the population to the common religion? Were they trying to suppress a cult? Did the cult just die out? It seems like this was a fairly prominent image in the beginning, but was pretty much phased out.

    Are there other examples of regional imagery being phased out and the former term becoming a "common" term?
     
  20. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    others here on this forum are better suited then myself to give you a good answer. I do know that the mystery religions were very complex and yes the socio-political changes surely affected what was placed on the coins. The emperors and kings were also involved and initiated in the various schools such as the Mithraic mysteries in Rome and a lot was secret: I suggest you study up on it all: Some here could recommend some good books. an intro here on wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman_mysteries
    I think @Ed Snible has recommended a good book on this previously?
     
  21. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    The only cistophorus in my collection:

    [​IMG]
    Antony and Octavia.
    AR cistophorus, 25.6 mm, 11.71 gm.
    Ephesus, 39 BCE.
    Obv: M ANTONINVS IMP COS DESIG ITER ET TERT, Jugate heads of Marcus Antonius and Octavia to right; he wears ivy wreath.
    Rev: III VIR RPC, Cista mystica surmounted by figure of Bacchus, standing to left, holding cantharus and leaning on thyrsus; on either side, coiled serpent.
    Refs: SNG Cop. 408; SNG von Aulock 6555; Franke KZR 472; RSC 3; Sydenham 1198; RPC 2202; Sear 1513; BMCRR East 135-137.
     
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