What if? (1964 peace dollar)

What if the government lied about melting down the 1964 peace dollars and there are 300,000 of them sitting in a vault somewhere? What if the mint is planning to release these coins for sale to the general public in 2014 which is when the coins turn 50? If this happened, the market would be flooded with BU peace dollars and the coins would be far from rare, but it would give collectors to own a legendary coin. I doubt any of this happens, but it would be great if it did. I'd buy one or a dozen.

 

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I think you answered your own questions.

Specifically: "I'd buy one or a dozen."

While 300.000+ could not possibly be considered rare, the coin would be HUGELY POPULAR.

For example, the lowly 1909-SVDB could set you back about $500 in Good 4 yet, it is not rare with a mintage of 484,000 but it is tremendously popular.

If you or anybody is thinking of buying a dozen 1964-D Peace Dollars, I would strongly suggest that savings begin today. At the very minimum, a large line of credit will be needed. Possibly approaching $100,000.

Nut alas, its only a dream since I am if the opinion that if ANY 1964-D Peace Dollars survived the melting pot, there most certainly would have been a photograph floating around somewhere. As it sits today, there is not one single photograph of an authentic 1964-D Peace Dollar.

Not one.

This tells me that none exist.

 

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so I think there's an outside shot there are some out there.

 

Interesting discussion. I went to the Breen Encyclopedia. 316,076 Peace Dollars dated 1964 were struck May 15-24, 1965. They were recalled and melted. However, Breen says that Fern Miller of the Denver Mint told local dealer Dan Brown that no one kept track of Mint employees who might have purchased one or two each.

As noted, none has appeared yet.

 

Thoses dies were sold, and are being minted by the royal oak mint's, I use to see them at Michigan coin shows all the time, about 2 yrs ago there was a gentlemen minting his own coins, in jail now, and no one could figure out why somone was aloud to buy theses dies from the mint, and make the 1964 peace dollar, and he didn't go to jail, maybe because the mint sold him the dies, I guess, heres the title to the article by Ken Potter
Rare Coin Reproductions - Ken Potter
koinpro.tripod.com/ReproListUpdated.htm‎
1964-D Peace Dollar Nice Frosty This is the Royal Oak Mint's "Exact Size" ..... Most all were sold at coin shows in Michigan within 50 miles of ROM to ...

 

Take a good look at those Royal Oak copies there is no way they would be considered to be US Mint dies, the workmanship is not up to standard. The Gallery Mint copies are much closer in design to the genuines than the Royal Oak pieces. Potters copies are fairly laughable while the GMM copies have come close to fooling specialists.

 

Daniels' look pretty convincing..........

 

Copies, replicas, fakes, counterfeits, fantasy, tokens... the story of numismatics today I guess. Well, maybe there is a genuine '64 out there somewhere...

 

The point is, their in the market, and I seen them first hand, they weren't stamped copied at first, or any mint marks either, that didn't happen until someone else went to jail, in michigan for making his own coins, you could not tell the difference in what I'll call the medallions, also talk was that the mint sold the dies, this was a big case in michigan, went federal, I think, not sure, he got 80 yrs in federal jail, not sure on jail time, thats what I know of it

 

I've never heard of the mint selling dies without cancelling them. I have heard of folks going through the garbage (mint) and pulling out uncancelled dies and using them......

 

Were all in luck on this thread, I'm off to the coin show as we speak, I'm sitting with potter, I'll find out more at show for everyone, both coins were going though the coin shows at the same time, I'll be back later on with info

 

This was well before my time but I thought the entire production of Kennedy half dollars was in 1964, not started in 1963. But what do I know; I am just going by Gilroy Roberts’ “REMINISCENCE ON THE CREATION OF THE KENNEDY HALF DOLLAR” dated 04/29/1964 and he (Roberts) was only the Chief Engraver for the U.S. Mint so he probably didn’t know what he was talking (writing) about.

Now if LANTZ was wrong in his 1996 article (thirty-two years after the fact) about the release of the Kennedy Half Dollar then what credibility should be given to his story about the Peace Dollar?

 

Yes “Trial Strikes” were produced on December 13th but they were rejected on December 17th and corrections made to please Mrs. Kennedy.

New “Trial Strikes” were created and Secretary of the Treasury Dillon wanted to see and on December 27th he felt it met with Mrs. Kenndy’s wishes for the changes she wanted.

The Proof dies were not prepared and delivered until January 2, 1964, and according to Roberts, the regular production had some minor problems which were not ironed out until the end of January. On January 30, 1964 the Denver Mint started production of the half dollar and during the following week the Philadelphia Mint started striking regular half dollars.

Again, according to Roberts, all production runs (Denver, Philadelphia regular strikes and Proofs) were started in 1964.

My point is that if LANTZ was inaccurate (thirty-two years after the fact) about part of his story, why should we put any faith in the accuracy of the rest of his story?

I disagree with your view point on the “important part” of the above quote. It is apples to oranges, while it may have applied to the release of the then new Kennedy half dollar, the 1964-D Peace dollar was not a new issue but a continuation of the existing series. Again, it comes down to credibility and LANTZ’S is in doubt.

 

Back from the coin show, pretty cool, Rick Snow, Ken Potter, Coneca, somme of the big people in the coin world, were there, Anyone can I'll say restrike the 1964, and 1964-D Peace Dollar, Why, because none were ever released, whether any got out, doesn't really matter

 

I’m not trying to argue either, just to understand the facts. You mention that LANTZ retired from the US Mint in 1995 as the reason he wrote the article in 1996. So in what position did LANTZ have at the Denver Mint in 1964, an entry level position in all probability?

I understand that this thread is about the production of the 1964-D Peace Dollar and not the Kennedy Half Dollar but I like Ronald Regan philosophy of “trust but verify”. In looking at Mr. LANTZ article, can anything be independently established as facts or disproved?

First, let us look at the statement that you sited from Gilroy Roberts and see what he has to say on when production started (no spin on the intermediate size trial strikes):
“Extreme pressure was exerted to push this program through and by January 2, 1964, Kennedy Half Dollar Proof dies were delivered and our tremendous Proof coin production could get started. Some minor problems still had to be ironed out for regular production but by January 30, 1964, Denver had started production of regular Half Dollar coinage using the new design. Sometime during the following week, the Philadelphia Mint started striking regular Half Dollar coinage.” (QUOTED from the REMINISCENCES ON THE CREATION OF THE KENNEDY HALF DOLLAR by Gilroy Robert dated 04/29/1964).

Second, what is the US Mints position on when production of the Kennedy half dollar started? I would draw your attention to the fiftieth paragraph on this web page, http://www.usmint.gov/historianscorner/index.cfm?action=nugget08-12-07#footnote11
Please note that the Mint says that there was two months between the signing of the law (December 30, 1963) and the striking of the first coins even though Gilroy Roberts’ time line has it one month earlier on January 30, 1964 but still not in 1963.

And third, Mr. LANTZ contradicts Breen Encyclopedia reference Fern Miller telling Dan Brown that mint employees had an opportunity to buy a couple of Peace Dollars in 1964. Tom DeLorey addressed this issue over on the PCGS Message Boards back in April 2013 by posting a letter he received from Dan Brown about the issue and confirms that Superintendent Fern Miller of the Denver Mint at that time (1964) told him that there was a window of time that employees had a chance to buy the new dollars. That letter can be viewed in this link: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=886005&highlight_key=y&keyword1=Dan%20Brown

Whether “it is extremely unlikely that any '64 Peace dollars ever made into any mint employees hands” is not the question. Who had a better perspective on mint operation in the spring of 1965, the Superintendent of the Denver Mint Fern Miller or a laborer who was probably in his first few years starting out his career with the Mint? The questions should be, were all the 1964-D Peace Dollars returned? If not, did any of them survive?

 

Numismatics has its own vocabulary: cent for penny; strike for stamp; coins are not tokens; die chatter does not create "double dies"; and so on.

With a bachelor's degree in criminology, to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever been held in a federal jail. Jails are operated by county sheriffs to hold (1) those awaiting trial or sentencing and (2) those convicted of misdemeanors with sentences of less than one year (or less than two years in Massachusetts).

Convicted felons are held in prisons.

It might be a fine point, but if you are going to hint about what you heard, you need to tell it as straight as you can.