What Happened to this Nickel??

So..I know I got some grief over the vice job Lincoln I posted a few weeks back, but couldn't resist"wasting" a couple more dollars on this nickel that I assumed would be the same situation. Once I got the chance to thoroughly look at it, all of the overlap is raised and was clearly a separate 1964 Nickel at one point before being struck again

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I see what you're talking about, but I also see
a lot of damage on the coin, such as the flattened
rims at 11:00 and about 2:00 on the obv.

A larger photo of both sides of the coin, OUT of the 2x2 holder,
would be helpful.

I believe the coin is altered/damaged, and not a D/S, but I'll
be open to another view upon larger, clearer photos, out of the holder, please.

 

It got damaged.

 

if it were D/S, looking at the imprinted design pivot points of how it would have had to been D/S .. the collar would have had to fallen out too, which would have created an entire other problem with the coin which isn't evident at all.

 

@Puddin'Farts

It is best to take the coin out of the 2x2 to take photos. That way light won't reflect back into the lens.

Chris

 

My morning line says that coin has been deliberately damaged.

 

Like to know how it was done.

 

Reverse shows possibility of being a greaser. (Grease or debris filled die, which leave some letters and details missing from being covered by the grease). The other parts are basically just damage. Coins that remain in circulation for 55 years get abused as a normal fact of life. And then, things happen to the coin sometimes accidentally and sometimes on purpose. There are a million ways to damage a coin. To ask for specifics, sometimes you can figure out the cause, other times you can only guess.

 

Thank you for your interest Mr. Weinberg,

I have taken new photos out of the holder to hopefully show in better detail what I am seeing. Also, I was unaware of a 1964 D/S error to watch for but that's great information to know!

As far as damage being an issue with the rim, I have done a quick Google search of HA Auctions and other certified double denomination errors, which I will also put in this post, and found a few that show what could also be classified as rim damage if that is in fact the issue in this case. It is obviously not a double denomination but would it be possible to believe that maybe it was as I mentioned, an off center that found it's way back in the mix to be struck again?

My biggest question if it is PMD, is how? The sideways ribbon and tail in the bust that doesn't belong there is raised and definitely shows flow lines similar to a VLDS Jefferson in my opinion which I've tried to capture in at least one of the pictures within. I always read that with double denomination and multi struck coins, the raised design is a giveaway and incuse design is a sure sign of PMD. How exactly can one be considered a complete rarity if it is possible to create the raised devices of say, a Roosevelt over Lincoln D.D.? Would they not all stand the same burden of evidence to show that someone couldn't do this PMD?

I am in no way being argumentative or disrespectful and appreciate your interest for the record. I am just curious and love to learn from situations like this one.

 

As far as the rim damage issues...I have done an overlay of the raised portion of the rim on the Obverse and the bust matches up perfectly to the two lines that appear to be damage above Jefferson's head. Also, the date matches up perfectly along with the RT of LIBERTY.

 

There Are countless ways for PMD to occur but only a limited number of ways mint errors can occur due to the standardized process. When trying to determine if a coin is an error, never try to justify it by saying "I can't explain how this coin was damaged, therefore it might be an error". Always ask "I think this happened during the xxx step of the process because I see yyy, therefore I think it could be an error".

This will allow knowledgeable people to consider your theory and provide constructive comments rather than falling down the out of debating the numerous ways a coin for damaged.


just something to keep mind. certain

BTW, I think your coin is damaged but that's just my opinion and I'm waiting other credible comments before being certain

 

.

 

.

 

I suspect weakly struck off-center with false dies.

 

Also a false die?

 

No, that's a genuine error.

Are you implying that since you found one that's genuine, yours must be genuine as well? Compare the the second strike (obv and rev) on the Morgan to yours. Why didn't the second strike show up on the high points of the head but is stronger in the low areas? Why is the reverse mostly flat? Nothing looks like the Morgan you posted

Once again, I can't say for certain if you're is genuine, but the more I see pics like this, the more I think yours is not a mint error

 

But the Rim is damaged, there's letter transfer from the second strike, and one of the two is well off center?

 

United and America show exactly like the letters do on the nickel. They line up and match the size perfect. Who can verify it wasn't a homemade die that struck it the second time? It was over 100 years ago surely someone made it that way?

 

The Morgan is absolutely genuine. The pic you posted is from a well known book on errors. Look up the authors, check their credentials/credibility, and then decide if you think they are wrong.

This is actually a good learning exercise. Compare the second strike on your coin to the genuine morgan. They aren't the same. Once again, this doesn't automatically condemn your nickel, but it does make it a little more suspect

 

You're right, I'm just trying to make jokes. I do believe the nickel could be genuine only because of how perfect the designs match up and the way the misplaced ribbon looks on the Obverse, not to mention it all being raised. Could also be fake, but someone was very good at making fake dies if that's the case. I'd like to meet him to know how he managed to stamp all those Roosevelt's over Lincoln If someone was so good at making fake dies, how can anyone ever be so certain that those double denomination coins in slabs weren't from the same talents? At least it's a 1964 nickel...on a 1964 nickel. Not a Lincoln that somehow got struck then magically hopped into the dime chamber

I'm trying to understand the logistics is all. I know that the guys verifying these as genuine errors are the real deal and very experienced, but I just don't get it. If it's so easy to "tamper" and "experiment" with old coins for fun, what would stop a determined spirit from making the perfect Morgan Die, buying a blank $1 silver planchet, then striking it twice? How is it determined that that is 100% not the case, yet so easy to say this nickel was double struck by a false die of such perfection? The coin looks abused for sure, but it could have passed through circulation before ever being noticed too. I'm not saying anyone is wrong because I wouldn't be entirely surprised, but how can it be so certain?

I'm new to error coins, so understanding and learning is the point I'm at, but after seeing the very first fully stamped Lincoln with a minor impression of Roosevelt on it years ago, I've found myself wondering time and time again exactly how this is even an error. Either someone purposely puts cents into the dime dies, or someone does it outside if the mint. No error. I find it hard to believe Mr Lincoln and Mr Roosevelt worked shoulder to shoulder and flipped coins to bet on who's paying for lunch. It just doesn't seem likely to be unintentional. At least the nickel is a nickel of the same year, yet it's impossible. Just don't get these types of coins I guess.