hi guys great to find your forum. Maybe someone can help me. I recently found a washington dollar with a smooth edge. Now i know there is a lot of fraud, dremmel, grinders, even lazers. Ive seen them all. But, i have come into possession of a washington dollar that has a copper looking edge. Now the entire edge isnt copperred only 1/2 of it. hard to describe it. If you were looking at the coins edge, the top to middle is the gold color, and the middle down is copper color. I think if it were grinded or lazered, the entire edge would be discolored, I stumped my ana coin dealer. Any ideas or comments?
to CoinTalk dragontattos. I really don't think that a really well made post-mint grind-off can be distinguished from a genuine smoothie without a high precision digital caliper that can measure down to the <1/2 millimeter depth of the edge lettering. I'm not convinced that if the fake is sandwiched between two known genuine coins, the difference would be visible to the eye, or distinguishable by touch. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you would have to measure the suspect and the known and if the suspect is at all smaller, reject it. We had a recent thread in which a smoothie was made for experimental purposes, and the weight difference was so close to being in tolerance, that I wouldn't rely on it, even with a scale accurate to .01g.
Your error is (hopefully) real. The "godless" error coins from the Philly mint have the copper edge showing. Believe me. I found around 400 of them =P
The problem is that there is no discrete "copper edge". What you are looking at is the edge of a sandwich of different metals, and grinding a tiny bit off the entire edge isn't really going to affect the sequence of metals. I haven't a clue as to whether the coin in question is real or altered, and my whole point is that unless you personally see one coming from an original roll, confirming that it is genuine will be an extremely difficult task. Convincing others will be an even more difficult task. I suspect that the TPGs will be very hesitant to attribute and grade them if they come in loose.
any pics anyone have any pics of the philly error washingtons? I live in bensalem pa and thats where i got it!!!!! I anyone had a pic or link to a site to compare thatd be awesome
sigh think i solved the connundrum if anyone has a serious article or pic of a philly error with a copper edge id like it but i think mine is a fake the copper color dosent just go through the middle, but the copper edge looks alot like this http://ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.asp?IDArticle=443
Here's a couple of pictures that I took of my finds....I spent forever taking the first picture, and it was worth it because it's probably the best picture I've ever taken of any coin...=p
http://www.ngccoin.com/news/enews/2007/March/article1.asp heres a good one, hmmm wonder what a grader will say???
The biggest tell might be if the edge looks "too smooth" so to speak. From what I've seen, the edges on these have a fair amount of marks, nicks, scratches, etc. -even UNC direct from rolls. One that has been altered might look just a bit... too good.
I could swear that I had a smooth edge coin with a ROUNDED edge on it. It was not FLAT like all others I've seen.. but it came up correct in weight and diameter... and I remember looking for grind-marks and not seeing anything funny. I sent it and 3 other smoothies off to be slabbed.. and now I want to open the slabs up and look for the rounded one again. I think either 1) the graders missed the fake or 2) I have a really special one that somehow was stamped without a collar then missed the edge lettering machine. I think (1) is more likely. Too bad I SOLD one of my slabbed graded ones.. it might have been the one I want to see again. sigh..
good info guys mine is smooth but not overly so, i cant find horizontal grindings or file marks. I do have similar vertical marks described as ejection marks. i dont think the "washington error" is worth enough yet for me to send it to a grader. Guess ill just hold on to it and cross my fingers
my coin shop owner what should i think of my coin shop owner, who looked at my coin and was perplexed. "why does it look all coppery" LOL
Dragontattoos: Awesome fidn! Sounds like you have the real thing. If you were to sell it, you could get anything from $50-$200 on ebay right now, depends who wants it bad enough. Still, a nice find. :thumb: N_sandler: Awesome pics! And great finds! :thumb: Phoenix
I've found many of these missing edge inscription errors and when trying to sell them, many a dealer was frustrated by my response whenever they would make a comment regarding authenticity of the coins. I would tell them that if they can't tell, then they have no business buying them. Many would take it as an insult, but it is a cold truth. The mint spec for the planchet weight is too broad to discriminate by weight. The reality is that anyone could go through thousands of coins and only start with the heavy planchets. The only method I can tell is to measure diameter to 4 significant digits (3 if your measuring in mm). Visual inspection is probably good enough for all but the best fakes as it is probably too difficult to put the vertical ejection lines back on the coin along with the bag marks without damaging the coins surface, but of course these coins are so trashed to begin with, I imagine it's still possible to make a forgery with those characteristics, I just think that a person with that skill doesn't need to commit a felony for some $50 extra bucks.
