This is a 1992 P that appears to be a clipped planchet but has still has a full rim. I'm no scientist but I figure that if someone tried banging it on the edge that there would be only one place for the compressed metal to go and that's up. However, this coin is flat all the way around and shows no signs of damage. Any thoughts on this, especially since it has a complete, full rim? The defect is between 10 and 11 o'clock. Thanks for any info! Dave
It would have to be dented after the strike. It's impossible for there to be a full design rim in an area that did not meet the collar.
But wouldn't the medal have to be displaced somewhere, as in a raised edge or a depression towards the reverse? A dent would not change the weight or mass of the coin, that's impossible, a dent would have to force the medal to spread to some other point on the coin. For example, a coin put through one of those souvenir machines (i don't remember what it's called) that flattens it out does not change the mass of the coin. Only a clipped coin would change in weight.
There appears to be compression at the temple of the head. I agree with MikeD. post damage. The rim could not have been created was it is now. Rims are produced prior to stike. Allen
Are you claimng that the coin is underweight? This wasn't stated in your original description. As to how this coin is dented, and as to why there is no corresponding dent at the opposite pole, I couldn't say. But a collar would not be misshapen like this, and a planchet that was misshapen in this fashion would show a weak or absent design rim and metal flow in the letters bordering that rim. You just don't see that here.
No, it's the same weight, that's what puzzles me. Full rim, no displaced medal from denting. I agree without a doubt that a collar wouldn't be misshapen too. I don't know, maybe we're speaking in two different languages because I am a novice at this. All I'm saying is that if you dent a coin, it creates a concave or convex effect to it. This coin is just flat all the way around so the only thing I can think of is a faulty planchet. But then again, it still wouldn't have the full rim...? I can't make the point I'm trying to make because I don't know all the terminology but, let's say for example you took a 5 lb plate from a gym and smashed it on the ground, first it would show damage ans second, th medal would disperse itself outward on either side if the plate. Forget it, I don't even know what the h*ll I'm talking about. If you want Mike, I can send it to you
No, they aren't. Yes the planchet runs thru an upset mill prior to strike, but all that does is slightly compress the metal on the edge of the planchet so it is easier for the rim to form when the coin is struck. The strike absolutely forms the rim.
I understand the points you're making completely. But it's not much of a dent and therefore doesn't show a discernible contact facet or exaggerated displacement of metal.
One should always distinguish between the "proto-rim" of the upset planchet and the "design rim" of the finished coin. Both are "rims", but they are distinctly different from each other. The proto-rim assists in the formation of the design rim, but is not necessary for its development. The proto-rim is produced by rolling and squeezing in the upset mill. The design rim is produced by coin metal flowing into the rim gutter of the die face.
I don't know---when Dave sent me these photos I couldn't decide what could have happened. It just didn't/doesn't look like post mint when you first look at it. I'm just as new at this stuff as Dave so I'll take your word for it Mike....but it is a neat coin. Speedy
The coin is out-of-round but has a full rim - so post mint. The bump is minor enough and broad enough where the displacement is thinly spread and not clearly visible.
